Weapon Allowance, revisited (in General)

roy7 February 12 2006 3:14 PM EST

I've seen a few threads on this and a lot of conflicting information. The most accurate seems to be 2/3 of your trained exp is your weapon NW allowance amount.

The wiki (until a few minutes ago when bartjan updated it, thanks bartjan) said you got a 55-60 NW per MPR allowance. That meant my allowance was $280K. Taking out $30K for my bow and arrows, I rented a weapon of $200K net worth. Well below my left over $250K allowance. And of course my PR went up 2000. That info was wrong.

What I'm wondering is, is there an easy/accurate way to calculate trained exp? I wanted to rent (until I can buy) the most powerful weapon right under my NW allowance. But getting a $ amount for that seems pretty difficult.

Here are some numbers I ran:

5513 base MPR (using no items except the test weapons)

Rented a katana with $614282 net worth before I realized how it'd slam my PR. My PR went up to 18221.

Went and read the old wiki info, so I rented a Katana with net worth $207380. PR went up to 7492.

Increase of 10729 PR from 406902 extra NW = 37.93 NW per 1 PR. However, I equipped my bow on top of the katanas and it gave me a different NW to PR ratio increase, so it apparently isn't a linear thing. The bow by itself gives me no PR, so bows to fall under NW allowance.

For sake of argument, if we assume 37.93 NW to 1 PR is accurate at my level, then the 207380 NW katana would add 5467 PR. It only actually added 1979. Thus on this specific weapon at my level and so on, I seem to have an effective weapon allowance of 3488 PR * 37.93 = 132300.

Now, I can't afford to buy/rent weapons around $125K and $135K just to test it out or anything. ;) Since allowance isn't based on MPR, it's based on exp, how would I get an exact number to know what to rent?

I have a 4 minion team. 2 of them are enchanters with only one skill, makes it easy. They have 16148 "unlearn" in AS and AMF. AS is a 95% refund rate, so that means I've earned about 16998 exp. 4 minions all from fight 1 = 67992 exp.

If we assume 2/3 of trained exp is the weapon allowance, then I should only have an allowance of $45328.

But looking at my math above, I don't seem to be getting PR on the first $132K or so.

So is it really just a $46K allowance? Or $132K? Do I just need to go rent 3-5 more weapons and narrow it down by trial an error?

And finally, why not just show the weapon allowance on the Home page with PR/MPR and so on?

roy7 February 12 2006 3:21 PM EST

Ok so I rented a $90,566 NW weapon since it was only $1K. This weapon added nothing to my PR by iself.

So clearly a $46K allowance isn't right. This means, either, the way I figured out my total earned exp is wrong or the allowance isn't 2/3 of earned exp.

If allowance is tied to earned exp, then about a $132K allowance on about 68K earned exp is almost exactly 2x.

Maybe someone with a higher PR and lots of money could strip down to base PR, and rent a weapon with NW similar to twice your earned exp to see if it adds any PR or not?

AdminShade February 12 2006 3:32 PM EST

roy7: that 55-60 was a very rough estimate, which indeed was off some.

and indeed the most accurate is the 2/3 of your trained experience, since that was what Jonathan himself had told us when it was introduced.

And to be even more specific, it is 2/3 of your trained experience and the NW minus the NW of the BASE weapon(s)

(so if you have a 2 mil NW katana, subtract 7k from it for the real counted NW)

roy7 February 12 2006 3:49 PM EST

Ok, so how do I correctly come up with trained exp?

Using the exp numbers I came up with above, my allowance is only $45328. But the $90,566 weapon I bought as a test added 0 PR.

Nightmare [NewNightmares] February 12 2006 4:48 PM EST

Add up the total xp. Write down the untrain cost and percentage penalty for each stat/skill/spell and add them together. Multiply by .666- and you'll have a decent estimate.

QBOddBird February 12 2006 4:50 PM EST

"However, I equipped my bow on top of the katanas and it gave me a different NW to PR ratio increase, so it apparently isn't a linear thing."

When programmed by Jon, linear doesn't exist >.< He'd never dare to make it that easy.

AdminShade February 12 2006 5:10 PM EST

perhaps the weapon NW allowance was raised some, it could be 3/2 now:

if you say to have 68k trained experience and not notice an increase in PR when equiping a 132k NW, then it has to be more...

roy7 February 12 2006 5:42 PM EST

Well, the $98K or so item didn't raise PR. I haven't seen a $130K one i could rent to test.

Maybe there's a fixed starting weapon allocation you get. So it's really EXP * 2/3 + X. I'm so low (only 5300 base MPR) that I can't really test that sort of thing, and if it's pretty big like $75K or whatever, it'd really throw off my calculations.

I'll just try to aim for a weapon under my allocation to max my wins without raising my PR. I was hoping for some specific way to calculate it so I'd know when to upgrade weapons (long-term, once I buy a good base weapon) as to hug the allocation cap and not push my PR higher.

Thanks for the replies everyone. I guess there's just no easy answer if Jonathan keep this stuff fairly secret. :)

bartjan February 12 2006 5:44 PM EST

Can you post the levels of all your spells and skills?

bartjan February 12 2006 5:55 PM EST

Never mind, I just looked as admin at your 'Unstoppable Force' character. The total trained XP on that char (ignoring small rounding errors) is 69,885.

roy7 February 12 2006 6:27 PM EST

I was going to toss in the towel, but okay. Here's all my fresh data. Since I played a bit since my first post, those numbers wouldn't compare exactly to these.

4 minions from day one, should all have earned identical exp:

1: AS 2489 (17120 untrain, 95%)
2: AMF 2489 (17120 untrain, 95%)
3: EC 1117 (6693 untrain, 95%) + GA 1608 (10425, 95%)
4: HP 571 (2858, 85%) + ST 1079 (5965, 88%) + DX 1060 (5848, 88%) + BL 265 (1115, 90%)

Note for #4, this is the stats I've trained, not my current stats. I subtracted 20 from each of them already for the starting "free" portion.

I took off every piece of gear. I have 5776 PR and 5776 MPR.

If I equip $90566 Scythe [48x11] (+9), no change to PR.
If I equip $207380 Katana [74x19] (+6), 7492 PR.
If I equip $614282 Katana [74x25] (+20), 18221 PR.

I also have a $36474 Compound Bow [5x6] (+3). Added to the top Katana my total is 19077, lower Katana is 8549, Scythe is 5776.

Notice the Bow adds 856 PR to the big Katana, but 1057 to the small Katana. Clearly there's a diminishing NW to PR ratio, probably so small people have a bit of an advantage while leveling up. I assume at huge levels it ends up at some max ratio.

I just got an email with your reply. If I have 69885 true exp, then compare that to Scythe + Bow (total $127040) costing me no PR. I may have trained a couple thousand after you sent that note that I had unused, before doing my numbers above.

Either the 2/3 thing is wrong, there is a fixed (currently unknown) amount added for low level people, or the weapon allocation is tied to something other than exp.

Ok, there isn't some large fixed flat allocation. I tested this with my smaller Voodoo Daddy character. He has roughly 6968 in total exp. I equiped the $90566 Scythe on him, and his PR went from 896 to 3846.

For completion, I made a brand new character. He has one minion. PR 0 / MPR 1 with no weapons.

$38 Sabre = 1 PR / 1 MPR
$90566 Scythe = 3843 PR / 1 MPR
$207380 Katana = 7488 PR / 1 MPR
$614282 Katana = 18218 PR / 1 MPR

I find it very interesting that the PR for my 0 exp character, and my 70K exp character, are nearly identical for each of the 2 weapons that are too big for me. Only the small weapon shows a difference.

I'm tempted to suggest that "weapon allocation" isn't tied to exp at all, but rather PR and MPR. The numbers on those 3 weapons, for 0 exp character, end up being $23.56 per PR, $27.69 per PR, and $33.71 per PR. So the more expensive the weapon gets, the faster the PR rises vs the net worth of the item. Sort of how exp gets more expensive as you level skills, etc. The result is that two weapons at $100K would be lower PR than one weapon at $200K, but someone would have to test that.

Given some NW to PR conversion rate, calculate the PR for your weapons. I'll call this WPR. If WPR is lower than your MPR, those weapons do nothing to your PR as they are weapons you should be using, we call this weapon allocation. If WPR is higher than MPR, then we add WPR - MPR to PR.

I don't know if it really works this way, but it fits all of the numbers so far. The biggest thing is the two Katanas on my 0 exp and 70K exp characters. Their PR is just 3 apart! The weapon allocation at 70K just happens to exactly match the MPR of my 70K exp character?

We'd need more testing and data... but my initial thought is that your weapon allocation expressed in terms of Weapon Power Rating is equal to your MPR.

So the question is, how do we concert Net Worth into Weapon Power Rating so we know how much weapon to buy to not increase PR? It seems to start around $23 NW to PR or lower for a cheaper item, and moves up to $33 NW to PR at the most expensive item I can test this with.

If someone has weapons pushing up PR already and some expensive item you aren't using, please equip it on someone without a weapon and see how much higher your PR guys. On those multi-million dollar weapons there must be some NW to PR ratio ceiling.

It'd also be interesting to see if 3 x $100K NW is the same PR as 1 x $300K NW.

roy7 February 12 2006 6:33 PM EST

Put another way, I'm thinking perhaps power rating is calculated this way:

PR = PR from armor/rune/tattoo/whatever + PR from Max(weapons, minions).

Because again, for the weapon I used above on all 3 test cases (70K exp, 8K exp, 0 exp) the PR ended up almost identical in each case, except where the weapon was cheap enough I could use it "free".

bartjan February 12 2006 6:34 PM EST

Test with only the weapons, not any other NW/tattoo equipped. Those will affect your test results...

roy7 February 12 2006 6:36 PM EST

Clearly 3x $100K and 1x$300K should be the same, as I saw with my bow and the two katanas, forgot about that. It must add up all the weapons and figure out the PR to add from the total sum.

roy7 February 12 2006 6:36 PM EST

Everything I just posted was the single weapons (or weapon and bow) and no other item in use.

bartjan February 12 2006 6:37 PM EST

It's not linear. So only measure with just the things you're looking at equipped.

Anyway, the base of items are excluded. So you'll need to lower the NW of your Katanas by $7,771 for example.

roy7 February 12 2006 6:45 PM EST

Dropping the NW of the items would change the NW to PR ratio slightly, but isn't enough change the rest of things.

There's virtually no way 'weapon allowance' is 2/3 of exp under the current live system, as you've seen me equip $127040 with 70K exp and have 0 PR added.

And my final PR is the same at 70K exp, 8K exp, and 0 exp.

If I'm right, you'd see my MPR go up but my PR remain the same as I continue to level with a weapon too high for me, as the "allocation" will go up as my MPR goes up, at the exact same speed.

roy7 February 12 2006 6:46 PM EST

Too late to edit post, replace:

And my final PR is the same at 70K exp, 8K exp, and 0 exp.


And my final PR is the same at 70K exp, 8K exp, and 0 exp when I'm using a weapon 'too high' for my 70k exp character.

roy7 February 12 2006 7:01 PM EST

Ok testing my idea that, as MPR goes up, PR won't go up, because my weapon allocation = MPR.

I'm starting at:

PR / MPR: 7,492 / 5,776

I took off my tattoo because that will mess up the numbers since it gains exp and PR on it's own. Heck, I even took off arrows since the # of arrow left might affect things. So, I ran about 50 BA, earned about 1180 exp per minion, and fully trained. I am now at:

PR / MPR: 7,492 / 6,077

Success. In fact, I'll say that my PR won't go up as I level until MPR equals weapon PR. (If you don't use any item other than your weapon, then your PR won't rise until MPR = PR, then PR and MPR will rise together.)

So when buying weapons, you want the total of all weapons to have a PR less than or equal to MPR. How we figure that out is an exercise for another day.

But it certainly isn't 2/3 of exp.
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