Comparing FB/MM (in General)

I'm wondering which does more damage. It seems MM should, but I'm not 100% positive....either way, the only way to test is to get FBs and MMs of equal levels and fire them off at single minions that have no armor/AMF. (AkA the Single Mages)

I am curious though. If you've already checked into this and you know, please tell me. I'd appreciate numbers to go with it, though.

You have MM so you'll be able to check that out for yourself. With regard to FB, against a single minion opponent it does on average a third of it's level. So if you've got a million level FB you're hitting for an average of 300-400k per hit against a single minion. But that can go higher. I had a million level FB on Artful and sometimes I was hitting for half it's level. What are you doing as a percentage of level with MM?

And just as a side note - CoC can hit for it's level against a single minion foe.

Unless it's been changed from CB1, FB does more damage to a single target than an equal MM would.

From the Wiki:

'Fireball is capable of doing 5 times the damage that is listed as it's effect (the effect is in brackets), the conditions of doing that damage are:

* Target minion has no AC / MgS / Protection / Endurance or AMF being cast on the minion
* Target minion has to be the last minion alive, or be a single minion on which is targeted
* Fireball deals maximum damage from 1st round of Melee combat, it does less damage in ranged (70% in 1st round, 80% in 2nd round, & 90% in 3rd round of ranged)'


My million level FB had a bracket effect of approx 140,000 - which gave me damage of sometimes half it's level as I said.

"Fireball is capable of doing 5 times the damage that is listed as it's effect (the effect is in brackets)"

O_O

Any idea where this came from? I once tried to fiigure it out, but damage seemed to be too random...

Well, you would think MM did more damage than FB. FB fires in all 3 ranged rounds, AND hits all of their minions. MM only fires in 2, and is concentrated on one...It just makes sense for it to be more powerful, but I'm not sure if it is.


And the best I've hit with my current CoC is *maybe* 2/3 of its level. Good hits on average is 1/2 its level, most are below that.

I dunno where it came from but it is definitely the case - but you only see it against single opponents. Would be nice if was that high during spread fire!

If this helps with CoC (I'm only adding it cause you started talking about CoC):

Urza, Wizard Adept's Cone of cold hit Dodger [1764249]

Cone of cold: 2,340,800/1,760,000 (440,226)

You can hit with CoC for it's level but it takes a while to get there - I'm talking about round 9 or 10. And as powerful as it is you probably don't get that far into a battle too often....

Thanks for that Chappy... ouch! ;)

"You can hit with CoC for it's level but it takes a while to get there - I'm talking about round 9 or 10."

Dude, what do you mean by that? There's only DD penalties in ranged. CoC attacks to it's potential every round it fires in. Unless you're talking about lowering opposing minion count to 1... ;)

Going by this theory, my MM;

Magic missile: 749,000/700,000 (338,346) should hit a no armour single target for up to a total of 338,346.

I'll go do some slumming.

;)

regarding CoC , it's partially the effect of cutting down multiple minions. However I seem to remember that it is supposed to get more powerful as battles go on - regardless of the number of minions. I can't find the documentation in Cb2 so I'm presuming that I read that in CB1...

But it's definitely what I observed with Jack Crow when he was up and running.

a Balrog named Gothmog's Fireball hit NME [673291]
(round 1 ranged with a 1.9 mil FB and a target with 6 AC)

CoC being more powerful is when comparing it's total damage over a fight to FBs. As a battle goes on, CoC will outdamage FB only after 7, 8, 9 or so (can't remember exact number) rounds. So if you're fights last less, use FB. CoCs single round damage potentiall never increases as rounds go on.

My MM. after 10 fights with MasterLancer I got these damages from melee only (and no AC of AMF)

292,867
293,521
215,517
292,777
232,619
253,787
209,802
297,055
268,238
171,406

Average: 252,959

That's 75% of my effect. But look at the damage ranges. The last hit for only 171,406.

Ah, yes that's what I was thinking about, where longer battles was concerned. My bad, blame afternoon drinking!

These are from one fight vs Ranger .. I skipped over melee rounds 1 & 2 because there were more targets .. As you can see the CoC damage range is very wide .. Most of the time, however, the damage does go up as the fight gets into the later rounds.


Urza, Wizard Adept's Cone of cold hit War [151394], Conquest [515752]

Urza, Wizard Adept's Cone of cold hit War [212891], Conquest [297733]

Urza, Wizard Adept's Cone of cold hit War [225739], Conquest [454814]

ouch, that hurt :-)

chappy: what's the effect level on your CoC?


Thanks for all the useful information and input, guys. It really helps. ^_^

from above:

Cone of cold: 2,340,800/1,760,000 (440,226)

His CoC is too big. Captain Amazing!

^_^ wonderful, after putting this together with some MM tests that I do myself, I think I'll have all the info I need. Next test will be: How much damage is lost by splitting up CoC/FB? Comparisons between fights with single minion teams and multi-minion teams!

OB u know I'll help any way i can ... just don't tell me to fight low people more than a couple times :) I can provide as much data as u might need

> Well, you would think MM did more damage than FB. FB fires in all 3 ranged rounds, AND hits all of their minions. MM only fires in 2, and is concentrated on one...It just makes sense for it to be more powerful, but I'm not sure if it is.

You may THINK spreading damage is more valuable, but consider this. Most defenses are based on damage done to each minion. For example,a FB does 200K split between 4 minions and each takes 50K while a MM does 150K on a single minion. Now the targets each have a 50K guardian angle on them. Guess what? Your FB mage now takes the maximum backlash 4 times. The MM mage only takes a single backlash of the same amount. Spreading attacks is also counter productive when facing a ToE team. So in the end you may end up doing MORE damage with the MM mage than the FB mage. Add to that the fact that FB is the ONLY DD spell with an item that specifically counters that spell and that it will splash your own guys in melee and its not nearly so clear as it seems.

OK, can someone post the effect for their FB if they have a FB around one of these sizes:

387,478 (166,912)
749,000 (338,346)

Also, other MM levels and effects to compare to FB would be appreciated.

My Fireball: 705,678/641,526 (84,721)

Against a single-minion, zero-AC person with nothing but an RoE and no AMF to dull my direct damage (Major League), I get the following results:

Round 1 average over 7 hits: 203,818
Round 2 average over 7 hits: 232,179
Round 3 average over 4 hits: 265,525

(Round 3 has less because I often kill him in 2 rounds).

Total average over all 18 hits if I adjust each round up to maximum power (as if in melee) for the 70/80/90 percent: 291,659.

Hope this helps.