central bank and auctioner (in General)


UltimaSpock [Forge Frog Services] February 17 2006 1:20 AM EST

a few weeks ago there was a severe row about the role of central bank and its bids.

i was defending the central bank.

But yesterday it outbidded me and i am not happy (lol)

indeed it was an auction from the auctioner (a shadow cloak)

do you feel like me that central bank should not put bids on its own auctions?

it is the same as if you were selling an item and if the prices were not high enough you would put your own bids to raise prices...

Shadowsparkle [Jago] February 17 2006 2:03 AM EST

do you feel like me that central bank should not put bids on its own auctions?

Central bank and auctioneer are not the same account.

And I think we've had enough threads with that subject already.

UltimaSpock [Forge Frog Services] February 17 2006 2:06 AM EST

who control the auctioner and who control central bank?

players?

Halcyon February 17 2006 2:07 AM EST

I think the amount of time it takes for the bid, needs to be like an hour before hand, as opposed to the last minute.

UltimaSpock [Forge Frog Services] February 17 2006 2:10 AM EST

what i wanted to say is that if the acutionner and central bank are running by softwares, then they should be overhauled, to have the same estimations for the items.

Zoglog[T] [big bucks] February 17 2006 5:44 AM EST

auctioneer is part of the system, not player owned so it's auctions start at a base price.
Central Bank is a character owned by Jonathan and has an autobidding program attached which puts a bid in at the last minute if the current bid is too low.
I agree with what bartjan always says, if you dislike Central Bank outbidding you at the last minute then you should actually bid what the item is worth.

UltimaSpock [Forge Frog Services] February 17 2006 6:08 AM EST

the auctioneer does not sell items at their base price, since lesser tattoos are sold at 1000 cb while they are worth 6000.

same for all items sold in the shop.

So there is a first automatic estimation of the values of items made by the auctioneer

But there is also a second automatic estimation of the values of items, made this time by the central bank.

They obey to different logic.

The one of the central bank is supposed to be based on a market assessment of the value an item.

It is different of the assessment from the auctioneer, since the central bank has bidded higher than the price required by the auctionner.

so what is the logic behind the auctioneer?

I have been caught in sandwich by two automatic softwares.

I do not criticize the central bank i defended a few weeks ago.
I do criticize the discrepancy between the two automatic estimations.

Zoglog[T] [big bucks] February 17 2006 6:17 AM EST

/me applauds the guy who does not read the line in auctions.
Net worth is a measure of how much has been spent on upgrades, not of market value.
Depending on the NW of an item it will always have a base price for auction or stores, not a calculated market price that was made up by the auctioneer.

Zoglog[T] [big bucks] February 17 2006 6:19 AM EST

oops, /me carps himself for making too much text bold >.<

UltimaSpock [Forge Frog Services] February 17 2006 6:21 AM EST

so we agree. The auctioneer does not make an estimation based on market value, nor an estimation based on the NW.

So what is the logic behind the auctioneer?

Zoglog[T] [big bucks] February 17 2006 6:27 AM EST

We don't seem to agree because you obviously see no point.
If every auction started at Central Bank's market price then there would be no fluctuations in the market other than going up and up.
Central Bank does not bid it's market value every time, it bids the next bid once and only once in order to up the price so you can still get it cheaper, therefore there is every point in having a base price.

UltimaSpock [Forge Frog Services] February 17 2006 6:30 AM EST

I have the answer for the shadow cloak I have been outbidded

Gbee transfered this item to the auctioneer for a price of 1,5 million.

So it's Gbee that tried to estimate the value of this item.

and it simply happened that Gbee and myself did not have the same estimation as the central bank had.

UltimaSpock [Forge Frog Services] February 17 2006 6:49 AM EST

Lol zoglog, that was exactly what i wrote on january the 17th (central bank whines...)
"
Perhaps there is a filter behind the bids of the central bank.

In this case, min bids cannot be defined according to the central bank levels, otherwise prices could only increase and never decrease.

If sometimes you lose versus the central bank, then the filter will decrease the prices according to your bids. Be patient or be more careful.
"

in this case i have been tricked because the min bid was really high (equal to the nw) so i believed that both the auctioneer and the central bank had the same estimations.

but i was wrong since the auctioneer was a player...I supposed Gbee proposed the market value and the central bank had another value in mind (if i can say so)...

if the shadow cloak had been proposed at 50% of its nw, i would have been more careful...
(by the way i do not know if my grammar is correct qbranger is not here? lol)

AdminJonathan February 17 2006 10:33 AM EST

Look, it's really simple.

I could easily just completely kill item spawns when I think there are "enough" rares in the economy for a given number of active players, but I'd rather take the market-based approach and let CB bid with everyone else.

At least you can outbid CB. That's not an option if the item never spawns in the first place.

Be careful what you wish for.

QBRanger February 17 2006 10:41 AM EST

Jon,

I think a big problem people have with the central bank (CB) bidding is the timing of the bid. That is, CB is bidding with under 15 minutes left in the auctions. This may have changed in the past 2 weeks as I have not kept track of the CB bids lately. If it has changed then ignore the rest of my post :)

I think a lot of people would be more comfortable with things if CB would bid perhaps in the middle of an auction to give people in all time zones a chance to see the bid and act/react to it as they see fit.

But as things are now, it is quite discouraging to see an item, place a bid you think is fair or even a good deal, and then not have a chance to rebid once CB bids.

As far as CB bidding, I personally have enjoyed the opposite of Ultima's situation. I put up a few items, including 2 COI's, that nobody bid on and CB took them for a nice fair price.

My 2 cents on the matter.

Zoglog[T] [big bucks] February 17 2006 1:07 PM EST

bidding the next bid half way through an auction or even an hour before the end will completely destroy the point of it. The point is to partially restrict them for rarity and keep values up to keep sellers happy (wont happen if final bidder after a lowly CB bid is a lot further below market value).
The reason it is at then end of auction is to bring it closer to that "market value" so if auto-bidding is to be in place then the current timing is the only sensible option.

th00p February 17 2006 2:50 PM EST

I too don't like the Central Bank auction buyer. Recently i have been trying to get a MCM for my mage. I bid on a +2, and Jon bid 709k. I figured as much, so the next day i bid 735k on a base. I figured i would win, right? Wrong. Jonathan's Central Bank bid a whopping 810k, 100k more than the one that had sold just the day before. At this rate, the value of all items will go shooting through the roof in a matter or weeks. Anyone know why the difference was so drastic?

Hyrule Castle February 18 2006 3:00 AM EST

i still think that maybe the value of some items has gone out because the supply is greater than the demand, and therefore some of the things that he votes on, the prices should go down..... cause i really dislike getting over voted last minute, when all ireally want is to get a good item for a good price

Adminedyit February 18 2006 11:34 AM EST

I can see both sides of this arguement. I have been outbid by CB (and still won the auction) and have had CB win my auctions as well.
Why does no one else complain if someone else outbids them in the last 15 minutes of an auction. Just like a real auction you have to stay till the end you can't bid and leave then complain because someone (CB or whoever) outbids you. If you want it bad enough stay till it ends and bid what you think it is worth.
My 2 cents.
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