Balrog Flame question (in General)


Caedmon [Revenge of the Forgers] February 21 2006 3:05 PM EST

Scenario: tank gets off double (or more) hit on minion with RoBF. First hit kills the minion in question. On the second hit...

VA doesn't go off, because he's dead. Check.
GA doesn't go off, because he's dead. Check.
tank still gets toasted by BF. Even though he's dead. Is this a bug, or intentional?

AdminShade February 21 2006 3:14 PM EST

Double hit doesnt even hit because minion is dead, check.

AdminShade February 21 2006 3:15 PM EST

And otherwise, minion is dead, erm Houston we have a live minion, check.

VA doesn't go off because it only goes off in your first hit now.
GA doesn't go off because of some reason.

BF does go off because your tank still hit the minion?

Admin{CB1}Slayer333 February 21 2006 3:17 PM EST

Shade, I believe it is possible to double hit a minion, have the first hit kill it, and the excess hits just bring it down farther into the negatives.

Caedmon [Revenge of the Forgers] February 21 2006 3:22 PM EST

In case it wasn't clear, this isn't a hypothetical. I just have chosen not to post the fight transcripts. But it happens every time I fight Scaglietti. Let me know if you need a cut-and-paste.

AdminShade February 21 2006 3:23 PM EST

I'd need the cut and paste, perhaps if you don't want to put it here, mail me :)

Caedmon [Revenge of the Forgers] February 21 2006 3:33 PM EST

Ok, here's a typical (and complete) round:

Red clove Prime Rib, Rare with Anduril [145150]
Red draws strength from his weapon! [48891]
Prime Rib, Rare's Guardian Angel smote Red (7802)
Red burns from the flames surrounding Prime Rib, Rare (2169)
Red decapitated Prime Rib, Rare with Anduril [111645]
Red draws strength from his weapon! [12647]
Prime Rib, Rare's Guardian Angel smote Red (4821)
Red burns from the flames surrounding Prime Rib, Rare (2598)
Red eviscerated Prime Rib, Rare with Anduril [154240]
Red burns from the flames surrounding Prime Rib, Rare (2558)
Red cries "Fava beans and a nice Chianti!"

First two hits invoke VA, GA, and BF. Last one only BF.

AdminShade February 21 2006 3:37 PM EST

Red clove Prime Rib, Rare with Anduril [145150]
Red draws strength from his weapon! [48891]
Prime Rib, Rare's Guardian Angel smote Red (7802)
Red burns from the flames surrounding Prime Rib, Rare (2169)

Red decapitated Prime Rib, Rare with Anduril [111645]
Red draws strength from his weapon! [12647]
Prime Rib, Rare's Guardian Angel smote Red (4821)
Red burns from the flames surrounding Prime Rib, Rare (2598)

Red eviscerated Prime Rib, Rare with Anduril [154240]
Red burns from the flames surrounding Prime Rib, Rare (2558)
Red cries "Fava beans and a nice Chianti!"


Do you have the same when you 'kill' him in 2 times?

hmmm, so GA and VA only work for 2 'hits' (or 1 'hit' for other fights)

weird! sorry but I have no explanation for this :\

QBsutekh137 February 21 2006 3:40 PM EST

Just sounds like the minion does not have to be alive for the Rune to still do its retaliation. Only Jonathan can answer whether or not that is a "bug" or a "feature"...

Caedmon [Revenge of the Forgers] February 21 2006 3:45 PM EST

The thing is, Shade, I can explain all of it except one part.

1. Tank's DX, pth, etc. is compared to target's AC, DX, etc. to generate number of hits.

2. One at a time, damage is calculated for each of those hits. So long as target is still alive, VA and GA are calculated.

Now, it's possible that not all of the N hits are necessary to kill target. And it's well established that if the last hit generates 100k damage, but only 20k are necessary to finish the job, VA and GA are calculated off of the 20k damage actually done, not the 100k "rolled".

In the case that the target is dead after N-1 hits, the last hit still shows up in the transcript, but no VA or GA damage is calculated (or shown), because no actual damage happened; i.e., he's already dead.

BUT...here's hard evidence that the BF outlives the target, even though VA and GA don't.

And I want to know if that was intentional or not. If it is, can I have my VA back for that last hit?

WeaponX February 21 2006 3:52 PM EST

dude the RBF is barely touching you. besides the FB reduction it is worthless. it needs more powers not less

QBsutekh137 February 21 2006 3:53 PM EST

Caedmon, VA and GA are always zero when the target is dead. That is because they have a ceiling of the victim's HP remaining. The hit still goes through, but VA can not aura anything, and a guardian angel has no life force to guard. VA and GA have always been this way, as far as I know.

So, yes, the only question remains: Should the Rune of Balrog Flame also depend on remaining life force, or can the Rune still ignite when a corpse is hit.

It has definitely always been possible to fight a corpse. Spid used to put me so far under on CB1 that I didn't even bother trying to pump AS any longer. I was just glad my dead minions offered up no more VA hit points to him. *smile*

QBsutekh137 February 21 2006 3:55 PM EST

MM, I don't think Caedmon cares about the relative power of the RoBF. He is merely trying to explain his empirical findings.

Doom Lit Sky February 21 2006 3:57 PM EST

I would imagine it is meant to be this way. It's putting fire around your body, dead or not, your body is still there to put fire around.

WeaponX February 21 2006 3:59 PM EST

my point is it is a non issue. considering the CBF hit even if the minion died and it hit just as hard whether the minion died or not one can infer it operates as expected

QBsutekh137 February 21 2006 4:08 PM EST

True, MM, but it is still a good discussion point. Some of us just like figuring out how everything works, moot or not. *smile*

I tend to agree with Doom Lit Sky on the phenomenon...
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