NCB Disadvantage (in General)


QBSefton [Black Cheetah Bazaar] February 22 2006 11:45 AM EST

The NCB has what I think is a pretty big disadvantage. It is in the hiring a minions. I understand that a NCB charater is supposed to have gear already and need less $$$ than someone with a NUB. I think the reasoning behind the lack of increased funds for a NCB is fairly sound, accept when it come to the hiring of minions.

Maybe I just got into the wrong "groove" with my minions and such, but my character is growing faster than the cash I earn to buy the next minion. I propose a reduction in the cost of hiring minions on NCB characters.

You might say, hey same thing applies you should have extra cash and thus be better able to buy your minions. Let me make a few points.

1) a decreased cost in hiring minions on a NCB character would not create much of an exploitable advantage. I mean it is not like characters are getting much value at resell, and so all this would do would make it easier to add minions.

2) I am not asking for more exp on the minion, just less cost, maybe something as simple a change as 1/4 (as opposed to the current 1/3) of the exp of the highest exp minion is the cost of the new minion and 1/9 is the amount of exp he has.

3) You say its all moot because you have NCB you have more cash. I say yes when that applies to things like buying BA or buying or increases weapons and armor. Those are "extras". But buying minions is another matter. This can drastically effect your ability to compete. Not getting your Corn to +9 or your extra 400 BA a day will not.

4) So earn money from things besides fighting. How? Other than contests, there is auction and forging. You cannot make very much money trying to by low in auctions and selll high. The market is dropping and you could end up losing money if you have to hold the gear to long. You say OK forge. Well whats the point of that? When I was running a regular character I had no trouble keeping my cash in pace with my minion hiring costs. Why should I rocket up, only to have to stall and forge, not to get a new elbow, not to get my clan to #1, but to add another minion crutial to my strat.

5) Last and most likely least, why not? Tell me how this could be used in such a way as to damage players with the NUB and without any bonuses. To me it simply allows the NCB chars normal character growth and development without giving more cash to rewards.

So in conclusion I say, drop the cost of NCB chars hiring new minions. Do not drop the exp they have or earn, do not add cash into the users hands, simply more buying power from their CB2 for the sole purpose of adding minions.

AdminQBnovice [Cult of the Valaraukar] February 22 2006 11:48 AM EST

The cost of minion purchaseis high specifically for this reason, there is no chance Jon is going to let me hire three new minions for anything less than the astronomical sum it currently is. This is a bigger pipe dream than campings return, or the abolishment of NW-PR...

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] February 22 2006 11:49 AM EST

The only exploit I see possible in this, is to play a single NCB character, then the day minute before the bonus runs out buy three extra cheeper minions to pump up your MPR.

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] February 22 2006 11:50 AM EST

Add a RoE to the single character as well. New minions are xp for cash. Making that exchange cheaper for NCB characters lessens the cost of ther (too high) BA purchase.

QBSefton [Black Cheetah Bazaar] February 22 2006 11:53 AM EST

Perhaps it is a pipe dream, but perhaps one thing is I should say more clearly. I would like the cost of the next minion reduced only to the point where the cost and growth of that minion is equal to the cost and growth of a non NCB character. In other words, scale down the cost of the new minion in proportion to the increase in rewards the NCB gives. I do not want it to be easier for a NCB to buy a minion as compared to everyone, just equally as easy as everyone.

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] February 22 2006 11:57 AM EST

Maybe I am misunderstanding, but I don't think there is a cost increase for NCB minions.

If you're saying you're advancing too fast and when you want to purchase a new minion, it costs too much, as you're higher (and the minion is based on your larger MPR) than you expected, then reducing the cost is only giving you xp for free.

Zoglog[T] [big bucks] February 22 2006 12:30 PM EST

The cost of a new minion at say 100k MPR is the same regardless of NUB/NCB/neither

AdminShade February 22 2006 12:30 PM EST

It's a choice, more exp against less money, simple choice i think.

QBSefton [Black Cheetah Bazaar] February 22 2006 12:51 PM EST

Yes Zoglog, but the amount of money a person would earn getting to the 100K would be different. The NCB character would earn a lot less $$$ in reaching the 100K MPR, and thusly be less able to purchase a new minion.

Shade, I agree with you in regards to things like BA and equipment. But I think one would expect that you could atleast afford to add minions without a much larger expenses than normal.

Let me put it one last way. When CB1 was closed down, the was a big push/plea to get those users to come back to CB2 and give it another try. The NCB was one thing added to say to those people hey you have a chance to compete come back and try it. If I had tried CB2 when it first came out, gave up on it went back to CB1. CB1 closes and now I am back to CB2. I say this is great make a NCB character and watch him fly. But now I am ready to branch out at add minions to my strat, but the cost is so high it is impossible to add the minion with the cash I have on hand, and without camping I either spend USD or I do something like forge with my NCB character to try and earn enough to afford him, yah this is a LOT better.....

Me, I have gear left over from my camping days. I am not one of the above mentioned cases. I will have no trouble financing my minions, but I could see others not so lucky. So do not change it, really won't effect me much, but it could effect a lot of these hey lets try this again folk right when it is getting interesting for them.

Just tossing it out there for consideration :)

AdminShade February 22 2006 1:00 PM EST

enlist your minion from the start, there is no penalty to exp :)

QBSefton [Black Cheetah Bazaar] February 22 2006 1:05 PM EST

Now there is not, but when I started mine there was, and anyone from CB1 would assume there was, and anyone who started when CB1 closed there was a penalty to exp for multiple minions.

So again, if the NCB was partially designed to bring CB1'ers to CB2 to stay and compete, then it fails in the area of minion purchasing. If that was all smoke and mirrors, well then, no skin off my nose :)

AdminShade February 22 2006 1:34 PM EST

Now there is not, but when I started mine there was,


erm, there never was a multi minion exp penalty in cb2....

and you even got a small bonus to exp on cb1 now didn't we?

QBsutekh137 February 22 2006 1:56 PM EST

Shade, there NEVER was a multi-minion penalty for exp. On CB1, there was a multi-minion REWARD. More minions meant slightly higher experience rewards.

QBsutekh137 February 22 2006 2:04 PM EST

Sefton, I see your point. But the bottom line is still greater experience for a lower cost. The experience/cost ratio is all that matters as far as Jonathan's tweakings of the NCB.

HOWEVER, I like your idea as an incentive to make fewer-minion teams more viable. Several changes recently (RoS aura effect, for example) have been skewed toward multi-minion teams.

The question would be, how huge could a single minion RoE character be after buying the second minion on the day before the NCB runs out? Cosmos gained a LOT of MPR, not sure when the second minion on that team was purchased. The NCB should never allow a team to trivially beat out the top MPR, except maybe for 120 straight days of 24x7 BA usage.

QBSefton [Black Cheetah Bazaar] February 22 2006 3:41 PM EST

When it comes right down to it, I noticed it, so I made a post about it. It really does not effect me. If nothing is changed it won't change what I will be doing. I just figured if I felt it, then I bet some others are (or will) and they may be less inclined to care about making a change than I versus just letting the game go.

Regardless, if I were to make a suggestion for change month it would be to realign the cost of a NCB charater's next minion, with his rewards schedule.

AdminQBnovice [Cult of the Valaraukar] February 22 2006 4:01 PM EST

while there is a disadvantage (at least a percieved one) for the NCB chars,
the situation isn't all different for any char at higher levels. The price for an additional minion is huge for a reason, and I don't think it'll go down.

QBSefton [Black Cheetah Bazaar] February 22 2006 4:20 PM EST

Not sure if we are disconnecting here or not novice, but there is no difference between the two OTHER than, all other things being equal, the NCB char with the high MPR will have less money to spend on anything (a new minion included) than a regular non-NUB non-NCB character would have at the same MPR. I do not think this is a problem for any issue ACCEPT for the purchasing of new minions, and thus my post here :)

QBJohnnywas February 22 2006 4:25 PM EST

Who says a non bonus char would have more money? They may have the potential to make more money than an NCB but that doesn't follow that they have more! Check out my bank balance if you don't believe me! ;)

I had an idea recently for adding new minions - a new option - a base minion. No xp, so instead of buying xp as you can now to build that team you would have to work. As it stands, buying new minions gives you a shortcut to higher MPR - although at a huge price in the upper levels. For some people that is a good thing - hey for all that's a good thing. But I like to build my chars - I like to see the growth and watch the fightlist change and develop. So I would be prepared to have to work for that xp in the old fashioned way...down click, down click....

Maelstrom February 22 2006 6:06 PM EST

I agree with Sefton here, in that it is hard for an NCB character to afford to hire new minions. I had intended to hire some more minions when I got to around 400k MPR, but the cost at that point was much higher than the money I was making. Yes, I could have sold some excess gear to afford to hire minions, but then I wouldn't have equipment for them, would I?

As people have mentioned, it wouldn't be fair for an NCB character to have lower costs for hiring minions - at high MPR, this would be a huge advantage.

My solution (which might be difficult to explain): make the cost of hiring new minions dependent on the MPR of the top characters, for instance, the cost could be based on the percentage of the character's MPR versus the top character's MPR.

One such formula for hiring a minion is: ((M*x*n) / T) , where M is the MPR of the character in question, T is the MPR of the top character, x is the current cost, and n is some constant (or variable) with a value greater than 1.

The value of n has the effect that, as your MPR approaches that of the top character, your cost to hire minions would increase significantly.

Does that make any sense?

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] February 22 2006 6:30 PM EST

I complained that the NCB BA cost is out of line. the get dinged twice. Once for having the same money reward as a non bonus character and secondly for having the BA cost of a bonus character. A NCB can never have the same moeny/xp ration that a non bonus character and a NUB character both get.

Jon in not so many words said it was a re start tax. The NCB is purposly gimped on moeny/xp ratio. I doubt anything will be done to change that.

QBSefton [Black Cheetah Bazaar] February 22 2006 6:51 PM EST

I honestly and sincerely believe that giving NCB characters a break on minion costs, is not akin to giving them money, GL. Its a very specific application, one that does have exploits, but they seem like good game play. What's the harm in allowing a person to get a MPR bonus right before his/her bonus ends. If you say they now sell the bigger character for USD, I say that difference would be better served selling as straight CB2 to USD even with a discount. My next minion costs like 3.4mil. At $10 exchange rate thats $34. Anyone going to give me $34 for my character unequipped? Thats my point. If you drop the cost all the way down to 2mil, thats $20 USD easy, you going to give me $20 for Sefton unequipped?

My concern is the pacing. The cost of the next minion way out paces the $$$ earned. I think that the current pacing will discourage some current users from continuing.

AdminQBnovice [Cult of the Valaraukar] February 22 2006 7:00 PM EST

It certainly will Seft, and it's supposed to. If you do not have HUGE cash reserves when beginging an NCB char, stop and think twice about it. You will not be able to afford daily BA, you will not be able to clan fight effectively, you will not have money to spend upping equipment, you will spend every cent on BA. Hiring additional minions is purposefully expensive for all chars. Just because the NCB is a hungry bugger isn't any sort of a reason for relaxing that. If I was able to afford to hire three additional minions I would be a force to be dealt with (esp with an RoS on an AS minion), the high version of what those minions would cost is about 30 million CB. I don't think it's supposed to be any different, even if the extra minions had no XP they still offer me a lot of protection. Pass the pipe Seft and Johnny, it ain't gonna happen...

QBSefton [Black Cheetah Bazaar] February 22 2006 7:58 PM EST

I will pass it right back to you. I disagree with you on putting hiring minions in the same category as buying BA, clan fighting, and upping equipment.

My character Sefton, is not the greatest character in the world, but I have never bought BA with it, only fought in a clan for a little while with it, and haven't upped my equipment much at all and did start with huge cash reserves. I'm guessing you objection is because you think it would make the NCB to powerful?

The adding of minions comes 4 times in the entire history of your character. The other things you spoke of happen much more often than this. Why does this matter? Because, first off you can only "exploit" it so often and secondly those other deterrants are needed to check the bonuses of the NCB, the cost of the minion does not.

Again novice I'm not sure if you are objecting for yourself because you think it is too powerful or answering for Jon?

AdminQBnovice [Cult of the Valaraukar] February 22 2006 11:42 PM EST

Both I guess Seft...I wouldn't want the single or two minion chars to be able to add minions without a signifigant trade off, which at this point is $$$.

Maybe if it chopped an existing minion in half, and cost you less...

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] February 23 2006 3:24 AM EST

Sef, I didn't want NCB characters to have more money, but the same xp/cost ratio (by lowering BA cost) that everyone else gets.

"What's the harm in allowing a person to get a MPR bonus right before his/her bonus ends."

What's the harm in giving them the same BA cost as a non bonus character? They don't get increased cash rewards.

You can 'buy' XP from only extra BA and Minions. Jon's decided to tax NCB characters on this front.
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