random end for auctions (in General)

UltimaSpock [Forge Frog Services] March 7 2006 4:13 AM EST

to stop players to add a single bid just at the end of an auction, do you think that it could be interested to shift secretly the end of an auction by a random amount of time (positive or negative)?

currently each time a bid is proposed, the end of an auction is delayed by 10 min.

but with the random end of an auction, players would be oblige to give their bids sooner...

this has been done in a few games, such as stronghold, and i think this is a good idea...

QBBast [Hidden Agenda] March 7 2006 4:22 AM EST

What problem is it that would be solved by this?

UltimaSpock [Forge Frog Services] March 7 2006 4:31 AM EST

if you have to quit the game, you will miss the end of an auction.
But if auctions are delayed or advanced by a random amount of time, players are obliged to propose the true market value of items, because they do not know when an auction ends.
this prevent players to add single low bid just at the end of an auction.

other players have proposed other idea to solve the problems around bidding, such as (i forgot who proposed this) to be able to propose your highest possible bid, with an auto bidding system, such as the one on ebay...

Lumpy Koala March 7 2006 4:35 AM EST

how does this prevent anyone from entering a bid right at the end? It might even help a low ball bid to win if it advanced the end time instead of adding 10 mins ....

QBBast [Hidden Agenda] March 7 2006 4:39 AM EST

If you have bid what you are willing to pay, and others outbid you after you've left, how is that problematic? They were willing to pay more than you. I'm still not seeing the problem?

UltimaSpock [Forge Frog Services] March 7 2006 4:47 AM EST

it would solve the problem of the date of ending of an auction a moving object instead of always being delayed.

currently there is an auction about a rbf that should have ended one hour ago, and i do not know when it will finally end.

QBJohnnywas March 7 2006 4:57 AM EST

Look at from a different angle Ultima, if you were the one who placed an item in auctions wouldn't you be happy if that auction went on and on and on, with the price getting higher and higher?

Most people who have a problem with auctions only see the problems from the point of view of the bidder. Remember there are two sides to auctions.....

UltimaSpock [Forge Frog Services] March 7 2006 10:02 AM EST

well, ive sold a few items too...

this is the moving end of an auction that causes me to be disturbed...

if the majority of players support this well, then i will have to suffer quietly...

QBsutekh137 March 7 2006 10:16 AM EST

Ultima, the ten-minute addition was actually _added_ to the game to prevent what is called "auction sniping".

Some folks have very small lag, very good (synchronized) clocks, and very quick fingers. Such people can place a bid at the very last millisecond, making it impossible to beat that bid. The ten-minute extension has meant to avoid that.

I can understand your frustration when an auction can go several extra hours, but the alternative is far more unpleasant, believe me. Do you have any other ideas? A random shift is interesting (not sure how a negative shift would work -- that would end the auction immediately, no?). About all I could see working would be to make the extension a bit shorter. If a person only has a finite time to hang around, whether the extension is 10 minutes or 2 minutes it would serve the same purpose (and turn an hourlong extension into a mere 10-12 minutes).

UltimaSpock [Forge Frog Services] March 7 2006 10:39 AM EST

a negative random shift would finish an auction sooner than first assumed.

i just proposed this idea because it was used in a few games to have a fixed end without allowing snipers to win auctions.
in fact the fixed endings become in such a case fixed soft limits

i will not cry if the current solution is kept...

QBsutekh137 March 7 2006 11:18 AM EST

I didn't think you would. *smile*

Seller's rights have to come in to play eventually... If I want an auction to run for 24 hours, it had better well run for 24 hours. An unlucky run of negative shifts and...well, I wouldn't get the time I paid for, would I?

UltimaSpock [Forge Frog Services] March 7 2006 11:24 AM EST

lol, there is only a negative random shift, and i think it would represent at most 10% of the total duration ;-)

if there was a negative random shift each time there is bid, you could finish an auction with a few small bids!

QBsutekh137 March 7 2006 11:53 AM EST

10% of 24 hours is 2.4 hours. If my purpose is to give everyone in every time zone a chance to lay eyes on my auction, I don't think I would appreciate such a shift.

It is a nifty idea, but I think the extensions work too (just think they could stand to be a little shorter).

UltimaSpock [Forge Frog Services] March 7 2006 11:55 AM EST

sure the extension works. i never said the opposite...
a bit shorter, you are right sutek

AdminShade March 7 2006 4:04 PM EST

fyi: it delayes the auction by 15 minutes :)

smallpau1 - Go Blues [Lower My Fees] March 7 2006 5:42 PM EST

just make it a 1 minute delay, instead of 15.
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