Thought about ammo. (in General)

Cylo March 30 2006 6:45 PM EST

I was thinking just now. Which often can be a bad thing, but hopefully this time I thought of something that might not be completely stupid.

This is the idea I had. How many of you go to the store to get ammo for your minions to find that the base ammo you want or the one with the x that you need has too many +'s or the + that you want has too many x's. Or like me and a lot of people there is no ammo that is low. like x1 + anything especially not x1 +0. Well here is my idea to solve that.

For people that don't wish to wait for ammo that is their exact number. They can pay a slightly increased fee. Not a huge amount, because then what would be the point. You could just buy the x5 +4 in the store and merge backto x1 +0, but for a small amount make an order to the store keeper for the amount of ammo at the x and + you wanted. Or just have it for the x1 +0 amounts since other x and + you could just get easily from the store.

Please tell me what you think of this idea. Good, bad or indifferent. Thanks. Oh and if this is a FORS, just carp me. I would deserve it. LOL

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] March 30 2006 7:13 PM EST

I just merge big ammo with a stack of base I keep for that reason! ;)

Cylo March 30 2006 8:40 PM EST

See the reason I think that that is a bad idea is in the end it ends up costing a lot more cash to buy the high ammo just to end up merging it with low base stats ammo. I just feel that is an un-necessary cost when base ammo should be abundant enough in the store.

[T]Vestax March 30 2006 8:45 PM EST

Still a fan of the Tattoo of Legolas idea.

AdminQBnovice [Cult of the Valaraukar] March 30 2006 8:48 PM EST

wow vest, whats it do?

Anything to buff archery would be spectacular!

[T]Vestax March 30 2006 8:56 PM EST

Well, last time infinite ammo was mentioned someone brought up the idea of an archers tattoo. I suppose you could take it in a couple directions, but I think free ammo is at the top of the list.

My two favorite incarnations of it are:

1) free ammo, ammo x and + increase with tat level (at a very slow rate) and increased dodge (something the ToBF and ToA use to have).

2) free ammo, increased dodge (scaled with tat level) , archery works in melee, no DX penalty with ranged weapon in melee.

Of course equiping any ammo overrides the free ammo effect.

AdminQBnovice [Cult of the Valaraukar] March 30 2006 9:11 PM EST

I like the idea of increasing ranged damage and evasion, though I think using a bow in melee isn't going to fly. It would need something else in addition to be a real worth while tat, maybe just eliminate the dex pen in melee?

Cylo March 30 2006 9:32 PM EST

Hey guys. Back on subject. LOL. This is about the ammo question as pointed out above. Your ideas are nice, but not really related. I'm not thinking of trying to bring back Unlimited Ammo or anything of the like. Just a way to get ammo to merge with current ammo without having to buy the high end x5 +4 bolts that seem to be left all the time and end up merging down to x1 +0. It's a huge waste in my mind and sometimes if I don't do it. I end up with almost no ammo on my minions because the low x1 and x2 ammo is all gone to use to merge.

So please. If you could comment on the thoughts above that would be great. Thanks.

AdminQBnovice [Cult of the Valaraukar] March 30 2006 9:45 PM EST

I know this has been begged for a pleaded for, but as far as I know the reponse has been nil to negative from Jon. He might want it to be hard...

deifeln March 30 2006 10:27 PM EST

If you "get stuck" buying x4 or x5 ammo why merge it down? Keep it as a different stack and use it up when you burn BA.

[T]Vestax March 30 2006 10:42 PM EST

Well, I suppose I didn't make clear how infinite ammo applies to this case. The root of the problem is not that base ammo is hard to find, but that people want the cheapest possible upkeep for their tanks. That is why you are all after base ammo in the first place, which is also why it is rare.

By providing infinite ammo in a way that is not overpowering, a.k.a. with a tat, then you help to eliminate the need for more cheap base ammo.

As for your idea, I don't see implementation nor overwhelming support. Jon's answer is that ammo appears in the store proportional to the amount of ammo used. All of this ammo starts out as base. If someone likes to take ammo, upgrade it and sell back, well there isn't much Jon can do about that.

I have nothing against it, but at the same time I hardly see the point. You can get base ammo if you check often enough, and so arguably this change would only facilitate people's laziness.

AdminShade March 30 2006 11:41 PM EST

Cylo and everyone else:

In the coming few week ends i will be conducting some experiments regarding ammo NW and the actual 'power' of the ammo.

The results of these experiments will be implemented in



AdminShade March 30 2006 11:43 PM EST

note: while this isn't exactly what you were looking for but perhaps there is an optimum in the power vs the money it costs. :)

Cylo March 30 2006 11:57 PM EST

I personally wouldn't call it me being lazy. I come on a lot and at the times I'm on fighting. Sometimes there is low ammo and sometimes there isn't. Oh and I think your thought that all ammo comes to the store base and any that isn't is sold back to the store that way. I don't think that is correct. Someone that knows the workings better might be able to confirm, but I'm sure when I have come to the store and some base ammo has just spawned there are other types of ammo that are new to the store also that aren't base.

Oh and about the comment why merge it down. You are correct. I don't merge ammo down that is x5 or x4.. Only up to x2 +4 then I merge down. I only merge it down so it's easier to keep up with my 4 stacks of x1 +0 ammo I have, and trying to keep all 4 minions stocked up with base ammo is tough. I know this problem isn't most peoples so yes, maybe this fix is just for me, but please. The lazy comment can go towards someone else. Thanks

Flamey March 31 2006 12:49 AM EST

i always seem to find base ammo easy enough, i buy all i can and i merge it, i don't see what the problem is here, it does seem like laziness to me.

QBBast [Hidden Agenda] March 31 2006 12:58 AM EST

Well, there's your problem, Cylo. Flamey is taking all the cheap ammunition.

Flamey March 31 2006 1:01 AM EST

shhh, bast you weren't supposed to tell him!

Cylo March 31 2006 1:32 AM EST

Ok. Well instead of comments about how this is a dumb idea or good idea or parts are ok. It has now turned into calling me a lazy person. I see why people tend to try to stay away from forums. Oh and flamey. The reason you find it so easy. You are purchasing ammo for 1 minion. I am buying ammo for 4. So trying to keep 1k to 2k bolts on all 4 minions all trying to keep the sets at a base amount. Just check my transfer logs. You will see how often I purchase ammo compared to you. Then you will see why I made this post. Yes I do understand that it is my fault for having 4 minions that fire ammo, but should it be that tough to get at times. Yes at times I can get close to base ammo quite easily. Other times it becomes difficult. That's all this post was about. Even though I guess it turned into how people can call other people names rather than just discuss the thread topic. I mean if I wanted to be called lazy. I could find many other ways of accomplishing that. I also would like to say, if you didn't like the idea, or thought it was dumb. Say that. There really isn't a need to call people names.

Is there?

[T]Vestax March 31 2006 1:46 AM EST

Cylo, saying something facilitates laziness is completely different from saying the Cylo is lazy. I know you have above average ammo requirements, so I suppose I'm down with this idea if it's implemented for just you. :)

Don't read into things too much. I mean I did say I was alright with the idea. Besides, I consider myself pretty lazy, so I should be sticking up for conveniences such as these.

Vaynard [Fees Dirt Cheap] March 31 2006 2:03 AM EST

Cylo, I like your idea. And don't worry about the nay-sayers. And I like the archery tattoo idea as well, it would be nice to have another tank tattoo option.

And Vestax, you say, "All of this ammo starts out as base." I do believe you are wrong. Ammo spawns anywhere between base x1+0 and perhaps x4+4. Or maybe 5 instead. The problem is no one uses the larger stuff and buying ammo is already expensive enough without buying the more expensive stuff and merging it down. And I'm the type that wants to have 14,999 ammo and no worries of running out rather than 10 groups of 1400 ammo that may run out.

[T]Vestax March 31 2006 2:16 AM EST

Well, I could be wrong about the ammo spawn. However, I do remember when I bought loads of Shots and Pebbles. It seemed strange at first that upgraded ammo was more plentiful then base, but then I realized that the upgraded ammo I saw that day was the same stacks I saw yesterday and the day before. Sure they would be cleaned out eventually, but you only needed 2 or 3 stacks ever-so-often to replace them and keep the presence of upgraded ammo constant and plentiful.

Like I say, I could be wrong.

Vicious Cat March 31 2006 8:04 AM EST

Alright, I'm confused :-(
Why would you buy something and deliberately make it less powerful?
I feel like this is quite an important point for me to understand, but I just can't get my head round it

QBJohnnywas March 31 2006 8:11 AM EST

If you're buying ammo in bundles of differing power then merging them, it is cheaper in the long run to merge to the lowest power. If you merge them to the higher bundle each merge thereafter costs you. Whereas if your ammo is base each addition only costs you the price of the ammo.


Did that make any sense at all to anyone?

Roll on Friday night.....

QBBast [Hidden Agenda] March 31 2006 8:20 AM EST

The Cat is right. If you can't get "base" ammo, you've already spent on "more expensive" ammo -- so at that point why make it back into "cheap ammo"? The money is already gone.

Answer: People who really need one 10,456 item bundle of ammo so they don't "run out". They can't just note that they are at 10 and switch to a stack of 899. They have to have one enormous stack of whatever they're shooting.

Less plausible secondary answer: People who are at/over their weapon allowance to such an extant that the difference between a few x3 +4 arrows and the x1 +1 arrows costs them enormously.

QBJohnnywas March 31 2006 8:23 AM EST

I'm willing to pay that little bit extra just to avoid the aggrevation!

Johnnywas definitely IS lazy before anybody passes comment.

Vicious Cat March 31 2006 8:56 AM EST

Right then, I guess the question becomes - is it that the money spent on upgraded ammo isn't worth it?
Is this to do with the upgrades becoming irrelevant when all your other pluses are taken into account?

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] March 31 2006 12:30 PM EST

Oh yeah, it's the lazy factor. If you are going to use 6-9 arrows a fight, I want a big stack of 'em to stop me having to go back to the store to buy more, or stopping my down entrer click fest by having to go to my homepage to equip more ammo.
This thread is closed to new posts. However, you are welcome to reference it from a new thread; link this with the html <a href="/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=001lEY">Thought about ammo.</a>