Roll Call: Tanks wearing real armor sound off! (in General)

AdminQBnovice [Cult of the Valaraukar] May 31 2006 11:36 PM EDT

I've seen some other folks wearing something that looks more like armor than those elf skin wearing fruit cakes. I'd like to hear your experiences, mainly to clue in some of the doubters about the wonders
of going into battle prepared to take a hit or two. I can't wait to see who wins the AC race, and I like to get a tally of the players.

[DC]Final Fight May 31 2006 11:45 PM EDT

im currently working on a full Heavy AC set.

All the armor with a TOE and a mage shield makes 400k MPR mages hit barely over 2k damage. :)

Admin{CB1}Slayer333 [SHIELD] May 31 2006 11:47 PM EDT

wait a few years and I'll hit 400 AC

: )

[DC]Final Fight May 31 2006 11:48 PM EDT

A small example Reichstag takes damage from his own Fireball (17127)! Reichstag's Fireball hit Aule "The Smith" [2175], Mandos "Judge of the Dead [849], Orome "The Great Rider" [1855], Fleisch [3505], Feuersturm [5716] Fleisch's Guardian Angel smote Reichstag (2103) Feuersturm's Guardian Angel smote Reichstag (3429) Feuersturm takes damage from his own Fireball (18093)! Feuersturm's Fireball hit Aule "The Smith" [2787], Mandos "Judge of the Dead [766], Orome "The Great Rider" [2902], Fleisch [3873], Reichstag [7289] Fleisch's Guardian Angel smote Feuersturm (2323) Reichstag's Guardian Angel smote Feuersturm (4373)

sssimmo May 31 2006 11:51 PM EDT

Was working on high AC but have since started NCB char. Once my mpr gets a bit higher and can support lots of NW I will be back in the race!

AdminQBnovice [Cult of the Valaraukar] May 31 2006 11:56 PM EDT

sssimmo: don't be afraid to throw that heavy ac set on, it adds very little pr and is hugely effective.

sssimmo June 1 2006 12:33 AM EDT

I am currently using ST boosting armour. Gives me 149AC and nearly double ST for half the PR addition of my AC gear which I think would be about 233AC. I could add a MS rather than a MgS and get more AC but "six of one, half a dozen of the other."

Vaynard [Fees Dirt Cheap] June 1 2006 12:35 AM EDT

My newly added Wall minion doesn't have that much NW invested on him, but does have 235AC as well as 30% DD reduction from his MgS and then the aura from my ToE as well. He can be pretty tough, and he's getting tougher.

AdminQBnovice [Cult of the Valaraukar] June 1 2006 12:42 AM EDT

Ok I'm going to say it, I think walls are a bad idea.

With the pleathora of anti AC thingamijigs going around, it is amazing what high STR and high AC (take your MgS and nerf it) will do verses everyone. We knew what the recipie for success was on cb1, it's not really different here. Even PL's limitation of drain isn't enough to really undo the solution, considering it's trained at expense of HP, makes the minion 3 times as vunerable as he normally would be to CoC/FB, thereby keeping PL trained low is the only way to keep a multi minion team alive. Morg damage is huge and easily surpasses the range of most of the PL's I've seen. add a decent VA and you're set to tear apart mages, tanks, and the rest of the messes around here (warning UC minions are crafty).

sssimmo June 1 2006 12:56 AM EDT

Shh. Stop giving away all the secrets....

Vaynard [Fees Dirt Cheap] June 1 2006 1:25 AM EDT

Pretty much valid points Novice, but a Wall is ideal for me. My Tank was being bushwacked by 0 NW mages, and having a wall spread the damage effectively cuts their damage in half, and lets my ToE work much better. And besides, once my Wall gets enough HP, I'll train PL and he'll start taking damage straight away from my Tank too.

So you are right, Walls may not be the best anti tank weapon anymore. But against mages, at least in my case, it seems to be the ideal choice for survival.

QBBarzooMonkey June 1 2006 9:51 AM EDT

Blah, blah, blah, big AC, blah, blah, heavy armor, blah, blah.

Crafty is a good word for it! You can't hurt what you can't hit. ;)

:D (big smile to indicate that I'm just messin')

QBJohnnywas June 1 2006 9:56 AM EDT

High AC walls, coupled with a ToE and a mage shield, can be very effective. Remember the TWO of them that I used to have...

I will say something for any kind of damage reducer though - it's going to be a lot more effective if coupled with a lot of HP.

HP is your friend!

AdminQBnovice [Cult of the Valaraukar] June 1 2006 9:59 AM EDT

JW your walls were quite a pain...but I'm more worried about beating both sides of the fence.

stabilo [Lonesome fighter] June 1 2006 10:07 AM EDT

My strategy on Kaeptn is as much Damage-Reduction as possible:
one minion with AMF/Prot 50/50 + ToE
one minion with all havy AC gear.

I don't have VA, but my morg gives me always (except if PL is involved) more HP back that GA takes away.
Another interesting stat ist that very often my AMF casts only 0.1, but the backlash my opponents get is still higher than the damage I take from those blows.

As far as I see it, AC is the only stat that lets your effective stats grow exponentially:
e.g.: Damage reduction is 90%, then you could say I have like 10 times the HP. Then imagine I get 5 more AC, which is like 1% more damage reduction -> overall 91% damage reduction, but which is then like 11 times the HP. This again is a **10%** increase in effective HPs.

Of course this effect only comes into play when your AC gets really high, and only then a HoD is actually better than a HoE.

I'm just not yet sure if I should switch my MgS for MS, but maybe you have some experience on this, but I'm sure that high AC will win in the long run :)

And don't forget that ToE-Aura is absolute reduction, while AC and MgS is % . So first I take % of the *big* damage two times (MgS, AC), and then an absolute reduction shoots in. This is the best way it could be :)

AdminQBnovice [Cult of the Valaraukar] June 1 2006 10:10 AM EDT

sadly it's the other way around with the ToE and AC, ToE goes first, then AC.
the MS makes tanks wish they hadn't tried to hit you...

[DC]Final Fight June 1 2006 10:13 AM EDT

I run almost the exact same strategy as you stabilio. From what i've experienced so far, a mage shield is a must.

While the MS will give alot more AC, the DD reduction it offers is much more valuable in my opinion.

The only draw back is that i can't train VA on my tank.

stabilo [Lonesome fighter] June 1 2006 10:17 AM EDT

novice: the wiki-page 'Armor' says:
The order is MgS/AC/Endurance/Protection. That is the MgS gets used first, then AC, then Endurance, and last Protection.

Final Fight: Yeah, if have the same problem .. can't train VA.. but maybe this makes us less vulnerable to DM :)

QBJohnnywas June 1 2006 10:41 AM EDT

I miss my old walls. Watch this space.....

High AC is great, there is no doubt about that in my mind. But...there's always one and why is it usually me?!! ;)

Do you want to last longer, giving you the chance to do a lot of damage over a longer period of time, but also giving your opponent a chance to cut you down?

Or do you want to do a lot of damage very quickly before the opposition get a chance to do any?

Heavy or Light tanks....I'm on the side of the light footed little guy with a lot of dex. My experience is that, unless you have monster weaponry, the faster guy will do better.

And if you look at the teams that are good all rounders - that is with a broad spectrum of people they can beat - they fall into the following two -

Massive weapon. Your morgs or at upper levels the really big mages.


Lots of damage very quickly. FB mages. Tanks with a lot of damage in ranged.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that it's not all about survival. More about the best defence being a good offence and all of that. But I'll add an IMO to that for good measure.

Having said that keep an eye on me for my next NCB character and lets talk about AC and damage reduction then....;)

AdminQBnovice [Cult of the Valaraukar] June 1 2006 10:41 AM EDT

wow I had no idea it was that overpowered (the MgS), I'm positive AC comes after the ToE (otherwise I'd be damned near invincible)

QBsutekh137 June 1 2006 10:43 AM EDT

Yes, with the TSA also being up front there with the MgS, I believe...

That order is why Borderliner (Rubberduck at the time) was always telling me to get better AC on my non-mage with my character Cougars... I had a big MgS, bit ToE on th emage, and with more AC he really would have been pretty tough to damage. I just didn't have the cash at the time, as I was burning it all on BA...

AdminQBnovice [Cult of the Valaraukar] June 1 2006 10:46 AM EDT

I'm so glad those items are that overpowered, I hope everyone uses them. So why does your shield get to go before mine? because it's a "power" shield?

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] June 1 2006 10:52 AM EDT

If you want to be technical, for DD damage the orde actually is;

AMF => MgS & TSA => AC/Endurance/Protection.

The last section used to be AC/Protection/Endurance, but the order was changed a while ago. :)

Endurance reduces a fixed amount of damage, capped at a total of 75% of the damage done. Protection is good (if you can RoS it past DM) to take care of that last 25% (And that's 25% of the damage *after* AMF/MgS/TSA and AC reduction...).


[DC]Final Fight June 1 2006 10:55 AM EDT

I have a huge AMF on my minion. It returns almost more damage than i inflict.

But i have a question, Does DM affect AMF?

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] June 1 2006 10:56 AM EDT

Your own DM reduces the AMF you cast on your opponents. Their DM does nothing versus your AMF.

AdminQBnovice [Cult of the Valaraukar] June 1 2006 11:13 AM EDT

s/overpowered/well balanced and effective at what it does well. In trade for your DD reduction I get a nice clean hit on you every time (the sucking sound is you shrinking and me getting bigger).

QBsutekh137 June 1 2006 1:08 PM EDT

True, novice, but earlier you said you wanted to do well on both sides of the fence... Even a huge MS does not do NEARLY as much to stop DD as medium-sized MgS.

You can try to be both rock and paper at once, you'll just do half as well at both. *smile*
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