Congrats to Nymandus (in Off-topic)
Nymandus sliced into Keken Lvl 11 Orc Warrior with The Reaver 
Nymandus's The Reaver went snicker-snack! 
That's some seriously amazing damage, he kills my tank in one round.
(just in case anyone wondered, yes this is a thread about the VB being overpowered)
The Reaver [75x732] (+49) owned by Nymandus (Nymandus)
(just for reference)
This confirms that the next three months will be spent fending off hoards of single tanks wielding can openers, then after three months of can openers ruling the world I really hope Jon finally nerfs the VB back where it came from (alice?)...
July 6 2006 9:07 PM EDT
I think in order to know if the VB is overpowered, we need to find out how much a MH or BoNE does to your tank with the same 'x'.
Until then, with the new changes, one can not know if the VB is truely overpowered.
Probably not overpowered in general, just good against you.
July 6 2006 9:48 PM EDT
Nymandus also wields serious ranged damage. He can kill me in one round on semi-rare occasion... Three ranged hits all north of 350K each. Granted, I have no AC. *smile* That's a dang fine tank coming up the ranks! Maybe I spoke too soon when I was dissing the ToE for a single mage! *smile*
July 6 2006 10:21 PM EDT
The Reaver is my old VB glad to see it's still kicking around, sorry it was you that found it novice.
Jon wasn't kidding when he said "Welcome to tankblender" ;)
just for reference Sut, he does less than 6k a hit to me in ranged.
Ranger, at this point most folks with a Morg that isn't top 5 stalemate me or draw CF most of the time, this is a mild VB on 400k mpr char.
5 / 16 / 38,979 that's Elros's average damage
17 / 17 / 30,499 that's Bart
with The Bow of Mikel 
with Ragnarök 
with The Hammer of Perception 
if it's not overpowered, it's undervalued.
July 7 2006 12:14 AM EDT
6K? You kidding?
3 / 3 / 276,687
That's an average battle. Wow, goes to show what 364 AC and a ToE (underwhelmed) aura will get you. That's awesome, man! You're getting something like 95% damage reduction when the blows are in the 200-300K range! That is fantastic!
Dropping that reduction to around 50%, and getting 130K hits off of 200-300K normal ones sounds about right. :)
So the VB is fine, but sohuld a charcater of this size be able to do this amount of damage?
Has the VB now become the best weapon in the game, as AC continues to grow?
Should the VB get an increased PR weight (And all other weapons that have specials)?
someone did very astutely point out that my strat is about as weak to his as it could get.
Tank now dish out an amazing amount of damage. WIth VBs, AC (and Endurance) isn't a viable way of stopping damage. Maybe we're looking at a resurgance of Dex and Evasion to try to dodge hits. :/
But AC will still murder DD damage (bar decay of course), especially as it's been recently reduced...
July 7 2006 3:37 AM EDT
you're forgetting that it gets expensive to upgrade the '+' on the VB and against other ToA tanks without a VB, they will be hard to hit as they have the high DX and will hit more often with their weapon which has cheap upgrade for the '+' the only downside to the VB, and still a slightly higher upgrade cost for 'x'
July 7 2006 3:37 AM EDT
GL is right, where the VB is concerned Heavy tanks are toast. Speed is the only real defence here, if he can't touch you he can't hurt you.
But what this post shows is how good your defences are against the rest of the physical damage, if you are reducing the bigger weapons to around 40k per strike. I'm sitting here with 30k st on my char and a morg of only about x250. I'm hitting people for around 35k per hit. So your defenses are dropping huge tanks down to pretty much the same level as my little puny tank...that's good work.
Shame the VB exists though....
July 7 2006 3:38 AM EDT
Sorry, forgot to add....maybe this should be a thread about AC/ToE being overpowered.....;)
I've been saying that all along!
I use overpowered strats exclusively.
as a finisher to this tripe, all I really want is a downside to the VB. There are nothing but upsides to it; one handed, nice base, tolerable upgrade cost. Maybe it should be two handed, although that's an odd image depending on how you picture a vorpal blade.
July 7 2006 3:49 AM EDT
Perhaps it needs a heavy dex penalty! That would at least cut down the amount of hits per round...
But that would even out the damage.
So what if you can hit through armour for 50K a hit, but only do it once per round. Just use your existing weapon (that hits for 25K per hit, but hits twice a round...).
Maybe would could add the Tattoo/Power Shield penalty to VBs? No tattoo's or Power shields on a VB user.
July 7 2006 5:33 AM EDT
You may have forgotten but the VB does have a down side, the cost to upgrade the + on it is still the same, yes the x is dirt cheap now but, it doesn't matter how high the x is if you cant hit them.
What sort of Dex do heavy AC minions have though? Heavy armour isn't known for it's + Dex attributes! ;)
VBs will be used versus High AC. They are usually on 20 Dex walls, but even if you train dex, they'll take a heavy penalty from their Armour.
New weapon category. 'Power Weapons'. Same restrictions as Power Shields.
Stick VBs in this, and maybe even all the weapons with special properties. Morgs, BTh's.
Have this category be Melee only, so A/XBows and seeker ammo stay as normal. :)
July 7 2006 8:18 AM EDT
Create a power weapons category with the same restrictions as power shields? That would be a huge indirect nerf to the ToA. Why bother with it if your tank can't use the big weapons? Suddenly all big tank teams would be ToE or Ros....oh wait a minute that's already happened......
Ok, so maybe it would just be me and my ToA.....
It still allows UC + ToA! ;)
And don't forget the BoNE... BoNE + ToA tank, a reason to use it over a Morg.
July 7 2006 8:54 AM EDT
The BoNE does need some love I guess...
July 7 2006 9:05 AM EDT
i think you're all over reacting here, as edyit and myself said the '+' costs a lot. it takes out heavy tanks but thats it. lets look at BoTH/MH they have life drain and cheapest upgrade costs. BoTH 1-handed, 20% life drain, almost the same base damage as the VB(2 less) you can most probably make that up with the cheaper upgrade costs, especially on the '+'. when the VB isn't against anything with High AC, its effect isn't really big, it is just a normal weapon. yes, you can train VA with your VB which costs more xp, and the BoTH/MH has that naturally, and with the other added life drain with VA, you can get a lot more HP allowing you to dish out more damage.
i'd say they are pretty equal, the last change made the balance not distort it.
as for the BoNE and ELS something needs to be done about them, to make them better to use, right now its about 8 more base damage or so, and with no effect, they need more base damage and/or less upgrade costs. right now with the recent changes the only weapons worth using are VB, BoTH, MH and thats it.
but i don't think this thread is about the value/power of the BoNE/ELS.
this thread should be in general.
A VB is better than a Katana versus low AC. Infact, the only things it's not better than are Exe, BoNE, BTh, Morg and ELS.
So it's still better than the vast majority of weapons.
Versus high AC (And endurance), it's the best weapon in the game.
What's the downside of using a VB? That the big 5 do more damage to casters/Enchanters? Big deal.
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