Forging Note Pad (in General)
August 16 2006 5:40 PM EDT
okay, this is actually a forging service. If an admin disagrees throw me in general.
I will be recording forging stuff. I am on a quest to figure out all the "ultimate" forging formulas, and I starting now.
i track all my stuff here so hopefully another forger can put out errors if I make.
starting on forging a VB's X. NW doesn't matter with X.
current Rough progress meter: 47.204%
August 16 2006 5:41 PM EDT
"figure out all the "ultimate" forging formulas"
August 16 2006 5:49 PM EDT
The formulas in Wiki are good, but NOT the best. They can be improved, well, most evidence would make me believe that.
Okay, I went from
47.204% to 33.822% ( after getting a X)
86.618 is total RPM gained from a Wiki given 82,19 formula.
Forging with slight variation for first system half of formula, will do second later.
August 16 2006 5:51 PM EDT
Rough progress meter: 47.204%
DUH. I only dealing with first half right now.
Rough progress meter: 64.724%
I am looking for any sort of improvement.
August 16 2006 5:56 PM EDT
Okay, heated an extra 10 seconds.
Difference of 17.520.
Downside: No improvement whatsoever.
Upside: Indication that the formula in Help! is not the only way to do things. Though it was more effective other way, it shows more then one way to skin a cat lol.
August 16 2006 6:05 PM EDT
Rough progress meter: 60.102%
Rough progress meter: 77.621%
Using some... advice... from the dwarf, heating the VB ABOVE 82 was not the way to go lol.
This time I heated to 81.5
17.519 difference. a .001 difference from the others. not real sure where to go right now. but I will percevere lol (sp?)
August 16 2006 6:07 PM EDT
Unless forging has changed since CB1, it's very simple: there are two ranges for each type of forging: a "works" range, and a "sweet spot" range that lies within the "works" range and gives significantly better results. It doesn't matter where in the range you land, so you should only get two different possibilities for each item/type combination.
That's not to say that you can't "improve" a formula that's already hit the sweet spot. If you can figure out what the actual "sweet spot" range is, then you can figure out the optimum formula that hits the "sweet spot" with the least amount of BA used. That would be a worthy undertaking, I think.
August 16 2006 6:11 PM EDT
That is what I am trying to do. Find that one spot that it's different. But I see I was going at this wrong way. Assuming it would be a gradual increase. But I realize from what you said that it's just one combination of BA. Thanks for restoring my faith lol!
you also cant base your calculations on ANYTHING if it goes past 100% in one cycle, cuz once something hits 100% and goes up an X, the next 100% will take longer to get to...
August 17 2006 12:30 AM EDT
except that now, weapon's X upgrade is constant, so this is just fine.
August 17 2006 12:55 AM EDT
Bane, the best way to do this is to look at the % increase per BA. That will tell you what the best formula is.
yep, im an idiot, sorry, forgot about the change already!
August 17 2006 10:47 AM EDT
/me wonders why EVERYONE thinks he is a bigger idiot then he really is
Look I admit my stupidity freely, but I know some things.
I know that the X on weapons doesn't increase in difficulty(that one hurts small) and I know that if the effect i not to a greater degree then larger amounts of BA are worthless.
As a side note, unless the VB's "sweet spot" is well beyond the working range it doesn't exist. I tried the following, I think lol.
80,81,81: 30, 81:40, 81:50, and every combo above 82 until thte dwarf killed it.
So unless the change comes to tempering I out of it. For now and only with VBs. I am going to keep chugging at it.
August 17 2006 11:48 AM EDT
Nobody called you an idiot.
I'm behind you 100% in finding the 'sweet spots' for forging cycles! =) Very useful information! Keep pluggin' at it!
August 17 2006 1:39 PM EDT
Perhaps you should consult me more often than you do now GW.
If there is anyone with a lot of forging information, it would be me.
If there is anyone who has done a lot of research on it, it would be me.
August 17 2006 1:40 PM EDT
Make a nice excel spreadsheet or something with your data so we could look at the data and maybe provide some suggestions or theories.
August 17 2006 1:55 PM EDT
As far as I know, the "magic equation" still holds true for forging.
There are four growths for each forge cycle: first cast, cool to RPM increase, second cast, and final cool. I can't remember the numbers, but the second increase is the base jump. The other three jumps are exact multiples of that number. Something like 2, 1, 5, 3 for a "sweet" formula and 2, 1, 2, 3 for a non-sweet.
Finding an old, old Excel spreadsheet, looks like the numbers were 2, 1, 5, 2 for sweet formula, and I tihnk 2, 1, 2, 2 for not sweet. It won't get any better than the 2, 1, 5, 2 unless you can find the same factors for fewer BA (i.e. not needing to heat as much as you think).
If you are getting the 2, 1, 5, 2 and are using the smallest amount of BA to get there, there is nothing more you can do to make forging more efficient for that particular item.
All of this information is from what I know from CB1. If I am wrong, someone chime in, by all means.
August 17 2006 8:00 PM EDT
I believe Bane is trying to find the least amount of BA needed to still hit the sweet spots.
At least I hope he is :)
August 17 2006 10:45 PM EDT
That's not hard. Once you know where the minutes/color needs to be, optimizing the finite steps to meet that criteria isn't exactly rocket surgery.
Note: Some items, no matter how you optimize the steps, are simply not as BA/NW efficient as other. The HoD, for example, was notorious for being "hard" (read: bad for forgers) to forge.
August 18 2006 10:42 AM EDT
Okay, first of all Shade I try not to bother you with stuff. You got alot on your plate.
Yes, I am trying to find a ratio that gives MORE RPM to BA ratio. Just giving more RPM but taking 20 extra BA won't help anyone.
August 18 2006 11:13 AM EDT
Hey, answering a question isn't as hard as you think it is now, is it?
Anyway you should know which partial increases are the optimal conditions and aim to get them. (remember talks about 2:1:5:2 ?)
And some items have such long forging cycles that you have a quite broad range of sweetspot temperatures (being some 5% I think) that you can find a temperature / time which uses up less BA than a time which is the edge of the lower sweetspot temperature.
Some items have the opposite, in which 10 seconds could make a difference.
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