Strat questions/discussion (in General)

Maelstrom August 21 2006 7:16 PM EDT

I currently have the following (rather irregular) setup. The spell on TANK2 is just temporary, until I hire my fourth minion.


I plan to turn TANK2 into either a PL minion or a wall once I hire a fourth minion, which will be trained as the other choice. The question is, which should I turn TANK2 into? The ST and DX trained could be useful for PL absorption, or could let the wall attack for a while.

Here's the basic setup I'm planning. TANK1 will get a ToA once I'm done with my RoE, then the TsA can go to the PL minion to help protect against DD. The ToA tank will use my giant Morg and ELB, and I have a smaller Exbow and VB that can go to the other tank minion, which will be either the wall or the PL minion.




The armour in parentheses are things I don't have, but will get once I figure out what I'm doing.

Another option would be to also train AMF on the mage, let TANK2 continue as a BL tank, and then hire a PL-wall... but do PL-walls defeat themselves?

AdminQBnovice [Cult of the Valaraukar] August 21 2006 7:28 PM EDT

I don't see the AoM as a good choice, you'd better off with the AoI on the tank, or were you planning on ignoring MM teams?

QBRanger August 21 2006 7:38 PM EDT

The wall should go in back and the tank in front with an AOI.

I am not a person who likes mixing mages and tanks in the same team. I firmly believe that you should have 1 main damage dealer and use the other minions to support this minion. If you want to have a secondary damage dealer that is a mage, be careful of AMF's that will just eat that mage up. If you want a secondary damage dealer, I like having a minitank as they are immune to AMF's.

Also, if you plan on a base protection, then have it on your wall, otherwise the armor on your wall will have a very heavy penalty to enchantments. You might want to put the protection on the PL minion.

If your going to use a TOA, then train almost all your xp on your tank into hp with enough to keep archery at 1.0.

At some point a MS will likely be better than a MgS even vs mages. The AC point is somewhere about 350 or so. This is from my experience testing both the MgS and MS on my wall.

Maelstrom August 21 2006 7:53 PM EDT

I've never had a high end tank before, and have never used a ToA, so that advice helps.

AoI on the tank is a good idea. Yes, the Prot is just base, and will be on whichever minion has the MgS.

Getting rid of the mage is another good idea. Basically, I have the mage because I have AGs and a CoI... If I turn the mage into an enchanter, that minion won't need DBs - where would those be most useful? The ToA tank?

I don't plan to spend any USD on this, so I'm trying to build a strat around the equipment I have, or what I can buy/trade with what I have but don't need.

How does this sound, then:





AdminQBnovice [Cult of the Valaraukar] August 21 2006 7:56 PM EDT

I'd take the MS and use it on the Wall, and move the TSA/MgS tank to the back...

Maelstrom August 21 2006 8:01 PM EDT

That's an MS that I don't yet have. And isn't an MS the only shield a ToA tank can use? Or do ToA tanks not use shields?

Yeah, it makes sense to move a TsA/MgS tank in back, but maybe not if that minion also has PL?

QBRanger August 21 2006 8:01 PM EDT

He is using a TOA so a MgS and TSA are not options for his tank.

Maelstrom August 21 2006 8:13 PM EDT

That's on the second tank, Ranger...

Maelstrom August 21 2006 8:37 PM EDT

Oh yeah, an MS would cause a DX penalty with my Morg. OK, so no shield on the ToA tank.

Would the ToA tank be better off with BL than Arch? I could use my ELB on my secondary tank, and make it an archer...
but then what about PL? Does PL work on a wall?

QBOddBird August 21 2006 8:47 PM EDT

Were I you, I'd switch the mage and tank around, so that the Mage does its ranged damage and eats up the other MM as well if it encounters one. The Mage'll do about the same for range and melee, but the melee rounds are where the tank with its Morg shines. More important to have it up a notch protected from MM mages.

And of course, if you do this, you'll want BL on there instead of Archery, so that your tank can make maximum use of its weapon.

AdminQBnovice [Cult of the Valaraukar] August 21 2006 8:50 PM EDT

the ToA archery combination is possibly worth it, with the number of PL heavy teams out there, you could possibly take a whole team out in ranged with a large bow. PL on one of the mini tanks isn't a bad idea, as it'll prevent drain for at least part of one round, but unless you're going to invest heavily in STR and DEX, I'd just stick with PL on just the enchanter.

Maelstrom August 21 2006 8:52 PM EDT

I've already untrained my MM, so my mage is now an enchanter. I can beat a couple more people now, too :)

QBRanger August 21 2006 9:01 PM EDT

In teams that use both a mage and tank, assuming both have the same xp spent appropriately, the mage does a lot more damage in the early part of the game.

This eventually changes to the tank, making the mage unneeded at the higher MPR's. In fact, more than 1 player in the top 25 dropped their mage after discovering that minion did not change battle outcomes. But, changing that mage to an enchanter did add people to their fightlist.

So, if you must use a tank and mage, be ready to eventually change that minion to an enchanter if you want to keep up in the top ranks.

Xenko August 21 2006 9:15 PM EDT

I'd switch the minion order to:

Your current proposal will have the PL-tank being hit directly, instead of the wall being hit.

Give the wall an MS so he has more AC, and give the MgS to the PL-tank so it can reduce any MM damage (as well as FB/CoC).

Maelstrom August 21 2006 9:28 PM EDT

Here's the current plan: turn my main (ToA) tank into a BL tank. With an AoI, a wall and a PL minion, he'll have fun in melee with my Morg.
My secondary tank will be an archer, will use my ELB, and will be in the back with TsA and MgS. I'll only really need him in ranged, but if he lives, he'll have a VB.
My enchanter will train PL, to free up XP on my other minions, and to let the enchanter do something useful.
My fourth minion will be my wall, and will only train HP.




Xenko August 21 2006 9:31 PM EDT

Put the Wall in front of the PL minion or PL is useless against tanks.

Maelstrom August 21 2006 9:32 PM EDT

Good point. Forgot to copy and paste that over.

Maelstrom August 21 2006 10:34 PM EDT

What's best for an archer: EG, BG, or TG?

(CB1)logan666 [Jago] August 22 2006 12:50 AM EDT

If you plan on keeping up training ST, DX, and upping your ELB on your archer then BG's would be a good choice. Getting BG's to +10 is cheap and that extra 10% damage per hit can add up when your are doing 100k damage or more a hit. Also if you get a AoI for your PL minion then keeping him in front of your wall would be better. Have both the benefit of your wall's AC reducing physical damage and any MM damage that your wall takes meaning less damage your PL minion would have to absorb.

QBOddBird August 22 2006 1:05 AM EDT

1.5% damage per enchantment +.

Heck, getting them high enough for 20% damage extra is affordable. 20% extra damage - how can you pass that up?

QBJohnnywas August 22 2006 3:32 AM EDT

You want to maximise your damage, so I would put the ELB on the ToA tank to be honest. He'll probably be the stronger of the two and deal more damage with it, even without archery. Put the exbow on the smaller tank, as he's less reliant on dealing damage to get the exbow effects. And then you can push his dex more than his st to make sure he hits.

My tank when equipped with a ELB of a similar size to his morg deals almost as much damage in ranged as melee. And I agree with Ranger's comments on mixing mage and tank - but I'll take it one step further - if you have a large enough damage dealer - your ToA tank - you probably will beat the same people without a secondary damage dealer as you would with one. It might give you an edge over some people, but so far I've seen plenty of evidence to suggest that focussing your damage on one minion gives you better results...but that's just my own experience.
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