Puzzling Results from my fights (in General)


QBSefton [Black Cheetah Bazaar] August 22 2006 9:42 AM EDT

OK, so I have been observing some odd behavior in my fights. Here is an example.

First off this is what I cast:

Sefton cast Vampiric Aura on Gyaxx (?)
Sefton cast Vampiric Aura on Sefton (?)
Sefton cast Vampiric Aura on Nyrahh (?)
This is what he casts:

Mick Jones cast Ablative Shield on all friendly Minions (71984)
Topper Headon cast Antimagic Field on Astoria (1.00)
Topper Headon cast Haste on all friendly Minions (9770) Paul Simenon cast Ethereal Chains on all enemy Minions (16456)
Paul Simenon cast Protection on all friendly Minions (24)
Here is the end of battle summary for the minion Gyaxx:
Gyaxx 14,006 -247,908 8,204 -12,025 200 (notice the POSITIVE ST amount of 8,204)

Here is what puzzles me:

Astoria takes damage from his own Decay (6871)!
Astoria's Decay hit Joe Strummer for no damage
Gyaxx glanced off of Joe Strummer [7389] Sefton beat Joe Strummer [58332]
Sefton draws strength from his weapon! [19588]
Sefton beat Joe Strummer [55568]
Sefton draws strength from his weapon! [18926]
Nyrahh scratched Joe Strummer with Slice [94]
Nyrahh draws strength from his weapon! [34]
So why doesn't VA work on Gyaxx and his weapon. He has postive ST, he does damage, he has VA on him, why doesnt he get a draw from VA.
The target is clearly not dead. The enchanter with NO trained ST and DX which is negative after his EC, hits does some damage and gets some back. So why not Gyaxx?

Also I do not get this, but this is not the best example, but I have been seeing this a lot.

Joe Strummer beat Gyaxx with London Calling [135945]
Astoria absorbs damage [30234]
Joe Strummer draws strength from his weapon! [21142]
Joe Strummer crunched Gyaxx with London Calling [126556]
Astoria absorbs damage [302]
Joe Strummer draws strength from his weapon! [25250]
Joe Strummer pounded Gyaxx with London Calling [113544]
Astoria absorbs damage [3]
Joe Strummer draws strength from his weapon! [22708]

Astoria's PL is Phantom Link: 57,332/63,003 (103,197)

He is definately on his last leg at this point, but why does it take 3 swings for him to absorb himself to death.
I mean, OK lets say that you cannot die from absorbtion on the first blow so the second one is needed to kill, but why then the third?
He absorbs 30,234 having at this point only 305 HP left, he then takes 2 more blows and absorbs 303 then 3 before dieing.

These two inconsistencies have been bugging me for awhile I will post more examples if need be from different opponents.

QBSefton [Black Cheetah Bazaar] August 22 2006 9:44 AM EDT

Sorry I let this piece get weird, let me repost it:

Astoria takes damage from his own Decay (6871)!
Astoria's Decay hit Joe Strummer for no damage
Gyaxx glanced off of Joe Strummer [7389] --- Why no VA?
Sefton beat Joe Strummer [58332]
Sefton draws strength from his weapon! [19588]
Sefton beat Joe Strummer [55568]
Sefton draws strength from his weapon! [18926]
Nyrahh scratched Joe Strummer with Slice [94]
Nyrahh draws strength from his weapon! [34]

QBJohnnywas August 22 2006 9:56 AM EDT

I've seen some strange results from PL. In your example the only thing I can think of is that the multi strike comes first and the PL absorption comes second, that is Joe hits three times then the absorption is calculated, even though it shows at the end of each strike.

So in reality it should read:

Joe Strummer beat Gyaxx with London Calling [135945]
Joe Strummer draws strength from his weapon! [21142]
Joe Strummer crunched Gyaxx with London Calling [126556]
Joe Strummer draws strength from his weapon! [25250]
Joe Strummer pounded Gyaxx with London Calling [113544]

Astoria absorbs damage [30234]
Astoria absorbs damage [302]
Astoria absorbs damage [3]


Although everything is supposed to happen at the same time there are plenty of times where it obviously doesn't and I think this is one of those....


I get more confused though by the way one of my PL minions ends loads of battles with just 1 HP.....

AdminShade August 22 2006 9:59 AM EDT

doesnt PL block VA regeneration or isn't that the confusion here?

QBSefton [Black Cheetah Bazaar] August 22 2006 10:00 AM EDT

I hear you Johnnywas. PL has acted a little strange from the beginning, the thing that is REALLY puzzling me though is the VA

Here are some more examples of the VA not working on different opponents:

Astoria takes damage from his own Decay (168)!
Astoria's Decay hit Mocha for no damage
Gyaxx glanced off of Zeeloveeye [22824]
Gyaxx lacerated Zeeloveeye [24258]
Sefton pounded Zeeloveeye [108241]
Sefton draws strength from his weapon! [28472]
Sefton crushed Zeeloveeye [78566]
Sefton draws strength from his weapon! [14589]

Astoria takes damage from his own Decay (10564)!
Astoria's Decay hit Tanky for no damage
Gyaxx glanced off of Brick Wall [9742]
Gyaxx scratched Brick Wall [12233]
Sefton fractured Brick Wall [47890]
Sefton draws strength from his weapon! [16513]
Sefton pounded Brick Wall [56713]
Sefton draws strength from his weapon! [20996]
Sefton pulverized Brick Wall [63684]
Sefton draws strength from his weapon! [2409]
Nyrahh scratched Tanky with Slice [478]
Nyrahh draws strength from his weapon! [187]

In each instance Gyaxx swings, with VA and yet gets no effect from it, why?

QBSefton [Black Cheetah Bazaar] August 22 2006 10:02 AM EDT

Yes I believe if the PL is able to absorb 100% of the blow, then VA is blocked, but that is not happening in this case, especially evident when my enchanter with Slice (a named VB) gets VA draw on the same target that Gyaxx hits with no draw.

AdminShade August 22 2006 10:03 AM EDT

bwhahahahaha, sorry but I suddenly realized something:

Your Gyaxx has Phantom Link trained himself, that is why he doesn't get VA regeneration.

Notice PL blocking both your and your opponents VA ;)

QBSefton [Black Cheetah Bazaar] August 22 2006 10:05 AM EDT

So I am to understand, that if a minion trains PL he can get no benefit from VA?

QBJohnnywas August 22 2006 10:08 AM EDT

wiki: A minion training PL will get no benefit either from VA or MH/BTh

Shade is right.

QBSefton [Black Cheetah Bazaar] August 22 2006 10:11 AM EDT

thank you Shade :)

AdminShade August 22 2006 10:11 AM EDT

hurray, another mystery solved :D

Godpanda August 22 2006 10:14 AM EDT

lol same thing happened to me other day. Got all upset cus wall wasn't taking it's 60% boost to HP lol. Very annoying and I regret not seeing this earlier.

AdminNightStrike August 22 2006 10:17 AM EDT

Regarding the PL, it's because of how the damage reduction is calculated when absorbing.

AdminNightStrike August 22 2006 10:36 AM EDT

To be more specific, a PL minion always dies a horrible death where it absorbs 1% of the previous amount each blow until it dies. For instance, taken from a recent fight of mine:

Minion absorbs 68408
Minion absorbs 684
Minion absorbs 6

Then he dies with HP = 0. As I said, it's most likely due to when the damage reduction is actually calculated.

An annoying side effect of this is that if that last blow for 6 HP is split between rounds, you lose a lot of PL protection in that round, since only one minion can absorb damage in a given round. Ie, if the last 6HP were in round 2, no other PL minions on my team would absorb damage in round 2. I'm curious if this is as per design.

QBSefton [Black Cheetah Bazaar] August 22 2006 1:49 PM EDT

I noticed that effect and actually unlearned my second PL because of it. I mean, whats the point of having one ready to back up the first one, when the last 3 blows deal so much damage directly to the minion, while the other large PL waits its turn. If not by design, I might relearn my second PL if this "bug" gets fixed. Otherwise I think a second PL becomes MUCH less useful.

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] August 22 2006 1:55 PM EDT

Also, if you have more than one minion with PL, if the dominant PL minion is hit, the other/s PL minion/s won't absorb any damage.

bartjan August 22 2006 4:07 PM EDT

PL and GA is also a not so brilliant combination...

AdminNightStrike August 22 2006 4:25 PM EDT

How do you find out what is the "correct" way for PL to function?

Why no PL + GA?

Vector August 22 2006 4:38 PM EDT

If I recall the wiki correctly, PL trumps GA. That is, damage absorbed via PL does not in turn deal retribution damage via GA. So you end up with two defensive enchantments that tread on each other.

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] August 22 2006 6:11 PM EDT

Correct way for PL to function == Massive AC Wall, second minion with AoI and PL. ;)

Yeah Vector, damage absorbed by your own PL doesn't trigger GA, so it's not a great combo to have both together. ;)

AdminNightStrike August 23 2006 5:26 AM EDT

Thanks, GL.... now, as to what I was ACTUALLY asking..... =)

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] August 23 2006 5:44 AM EDT

LOL! Would that be "Why no PL + GA"? ;)

If so, that's been answered above a couple of times.

Damage absorbed through PL doesn't allow your GA to return damage on it.

so training PL and GA on your own team is a waste.

AdminNightStrike August 23 2006 2:16 PM EDT

hahah... no, how do you find the "correct" way for PL to function in terms of whether it really should be acting the way it is..... not what's the best strategy to employ with PL.

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] August 23 2006 3:28 PM EDT

Post enough until Jon drops in and lets us know? ;)
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