More Strategy Talks (in General)
August 22 2006 10:12 AM EDT
Well, I been thinking about the "ultimate" strategy alot. Franklly, it IS impossible because of the exitense of specialty strategies. But, I did think of one that would be deadly in alot of ways.
Let me explain my reasoning a bit. The strategy is designed around the current average mentality of the game. Doing lots of damage real, real fast. Resisting the damage is good, so is dodging, but I think the whole using someone's force against them is the best technique.
So here is the rough strategy.
First minion is AS. Second minion is GA. RoS on AS minion.
So heres the question. Can this strategies HP get over 41% higher then the next highest HP? ALso, can the GA get the full 60% effect.
Well, I answered my own question. Not really.
The problem is the fact that enchantments can't keep up with ST and weapon NW.
So you have to find a way to get the damage down to smaller amounts. AC is probably the best way to do this, but to gets lots of AC, you lose the ability to cast enchantments. AMF and EC are other good ways, but then you dilute damage from GA and HP from AS. Another problem if killing non-damage dealing enchanters/ walls.
So here is the next strategy. This one is more on the fly and didn't do much thinking about it (thunderstorm last night and those big time lull me to sleep).
First enchanter is AS. Second enchanter GA. Wall HP. Third E is a combination EC/ protection.
TSA/Tulks/HoE/AoAC/EBs/SC/MgS. Give the wall Bloodlust and a little strength with a Morg. You can give a ranged weapon if you want, but the wall's ST only for the end of fight really. With 24k(30k after +23 TSA) ST on my 600k HP wall, a 550k morg, and near base BL I hit 10k damage per hit. 20k damage per round, 4k HP gain, and if it comes to that, he should be able to kill any minion they have.
RoS the AS guy. Any resistance extra against DM would be GREAT.
So here are the downsides/upsides as I see them. Probably not enough GA. That's the damage dealing, and ToE hurts. Therefore, SMFB will hurt this one badly, especially with no AMF. The only chance is supreme damage spread across 4 minions, even though wall has TSA and MgS, it still gonna be touch and go.
But the real boost here I think is against tanks. a +20 protection, 200 +AC on wall, after having to hack through two enchanters and the GA that goes with them.
So my question, in summary. Can this work? Would a ToE on one of the enchanters and getting rid of EC/Prot enchanter be better? Would an Adam be better in considering with a more anti-tank strategy.
Okay sorry for the length.
August 22 2006 10:37 AM EDT
First off, AS is most efficiently used over a large number of minions - so 4Es would be much better. Heck, if you are going that way, go 5 minions: 4Es and an IF to hurt them in melee...that sounds so familiar.....*grins*
On the 2nd one....how do you kill them? A tank'll eat through all that, and the Walltank will not ever hit him without any DX. And yeah, a SMFB will eat through it as well.
In summary, no, the second one won't work, but the first has been tested and proven to work very well.
August 22 2006 10:37 AM EDT
If they use a Morg and VA, they will suck up more damage then the GA will do during melee. All they would have to do is unequip any bow and you cannot win.
And a lot of tanks that are non TOA, have a lot of nice armor to help lower GA damage, and if one also uses a TOE like The Lega, your GA will not do nearly enough damage to defeat them.
August 22 2006 10:48 AM EDT
Actually Ranger makes a good point. A point luckily I already discussed with someone =D
Switch the EC to DM. Stops Haste and VA.
But how about this then. Keeping in mind what I been told.
First E is AS. Second E is more AS. Third E is DM/prot(SF here). Fourth E Haste.
Stops mage busters, gives LOTS of HP, stops (some) GA and AMF.
August 22 2006 10:55 AM EDT
One question though, why put Haste on there if you are going to be a mage team?
*wink* I think I might have the answer... *wink*
As for GA, no, GA on it's own will not work, as GA damage is reduced by AC. You'll never do enough to hurt a high AC tank with just GA...
August 22 2006 11:03 AM EDT
I believe you will get a lot of stalemates and you would have a hard time to find 'farmable' targets as you grow :P
August 22 2006 11:04 AM EDT
I have infinite faith in DX on a mage. Just having seen a way to convince me to try it yet. But I find that one day.
And yeah I HAVE come to realize that. GA just isn't very good unless you use it to kill mages.
So how to deal the damage... lol 4 grenades? Just MMMM with a FF. Give them all FB. You will beat every team not using AMF, FB, or GA rofl. Or, better yet MMEM with a FF. 4 fireballs in one round, and put DM on enchanter. Muahahahahaha
August 22 2006 11:06 AM EDT
"And yeah I HAVE come to realize that. GA just isn't very good unless you use it to kill mages. "
Nah, it just shouldn't be your main damage dealer. It is great against those VA tanks, to help offset that HP they are gaining!
And 4 small FBs are not better than 1 big one....
August 22 2006 11:09 AM EDT
lol I know. I just frustrated right now. Sorry. My quest for the perfect strategy will never end probably. But lol you never know.
maybe TMMT is the ultimate strategy and just no one ever tried it.
infinite possibilities. But for now I scrapping 4 enchanters. Nothing wrong with it at all, but not the perfect strategy.
August 22 2006 11:21 AM EDT
CB needs to develop to the point where Ninja is the accepted term for a high-dex tank. This allows strategy abbreviations involving the word N. In particular, a Ninja and a Mage flanked by a pair of tanks - the TMNT strategy. If that name alone does not make this the ultimate strategy, then I doubt an ultimate strategy can be found.
August 22 2006 11:22 AM EDT
Why in the world would you put a high DX tank (ninja rofl) BEHIND other tanks? Defeats the whole purpose. Put it in front and let it dodge!
OK, here's what I've been thinking about.
I like GA, it's damage that can't be avoided, or absorbed by PL. But it is reduced by AC.
Originally I thought about trying a single minion (to keep everything concentrated) with massive HP and GA. Get enough HP and even at a max of 60% damage returned you can kill your opponents before they kill you.
All you need is a cheap way of taking out enchanters. ;) (To which I'm using a little Str, BL and as large a wepaon as I can get my hands on!)
But, GA on it's own isn't enough. Damage evasion (Dex/Evasion) and Damage reduction, isn't the aim. You want people to hit you, and if you reduce damage, you reduce the amount GA returns.
So, how else could I increase the returned damage I did to both Tanks and Mages?
For Tanks, I still had my RBF on my mind. I used it with EC and it worked wonders. I reduced tanks damage to zero, and they took damage back based on my RBF level. That + GA should do the trip versus tanks.
Mages then were easy. AMF. Not for it's damage reduction (which is nice!) by for it's backlash. With a 50% AMF effect, the mage takes themselves the same amount of damage they do to me. 20% from AMF, 30% (60% of 50%) from GA.
If I have more HP, I win.
I don't need to be able to hit Tanks, (although I must be able to hit Enchanters. Usually they are easy with 20 Dex, but Haste teams and EC are problems. I'll have to settle with my weapon plus for that, and hope no one is lavish enough to use large DBs on their enchanters! :P) and Tanks and Mages can be invisible, or protected by PL. Doesn't matter. :)
Now to see how well this actually works out! ;)
(I'm not one to keep strats secret!)
Oh and keep GA only as big as you need to. Over, it's wasted XP, and at the moment, I seem to be doing much more (twice or over) with 8K Str, a 0.6 BL and a Bone, than I do with 40K GA. ;)
August 22 2006 11:36 AM EDT
GA is good because it lets you deal damage specifically to the opposing team's damage dealer. Otherwise, it really doesn't deal THAT much damage.
I've found it's very effective in combination with DM. Cancel their AS, let GA kill their tank(s), and finish off the rest. It's just too bad DM tends to target AS last. Something always ticks me off when the DM on my mage team gets rid of EC and Haste. Especially when you're strategy revolves around dispelling their AS.
AS, GA, DM + Tank + Familiar is strong. Although you don't need a whole minion on DM.
DM has no priority. It will take out any ED equally.
At max efficiency, GA returns 60% of the damage done to you. Not super, but not worthless. But it is reliant on the damage your opponent can do.
August 22 2006 5:40 PM EDT
Okay, I like the strategy. But I not sure I get it completely. Sorry for being thick but you mind giving the minon layout? I also thought RoBF (combined with GA for like 73% damage return against tanks) but I don't get how you get enough AS, GA, AMF, and EC on one strategy to keep the 60% damage against all tanks, 50% AMF on all mages, and enough Ec to keep the damage minimum. After that you STILL need massive amounts of AS.
And I'm thinking of AMF over EC. I can use an EXBow to lower Tank damage if necessary. :)
Train massive natural HP, Large AMF, enough GA and a little BL/Str.
More than enough points to go round! ;)
August 22 2006 6:12 PM EDT
The best way of preparing for it would be to RoE it with say an FB for a while to build up xp and then switch over to the finished strat....
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