AoF explanation, please? (in General)

QBOddBird September 28 2006 3:33 PM EDT

"2% bonus per plus to skills and all enchantments experienced."

By experienced, it means that all of them trained?

Or it means that every enchantment experienced by the minion?

I know this much, it doesn't increase the AMF I cast.
But it does increase my UC. (YESSSS!)

So if it increases Enchantments cast *ON* the minion as well as ED's cast *BY* the minion *ON* the minion, it would increase (say if you had an AS) when it is cast, but also would increase the opponent's DM by the same amount? O.o

chappy [Soup Ream] September 28 2006 3:35 PM EDT

It doesn't increase DM cast on that minion. It does however amplify EC and AMF cast on the minion wearing the AoF... and yes it will amplify the AS / GS / Haste etc cast on that minion.

QBOddBird September 28 2006 3:46 PM EDT

OK, so let me be sure I've got this down right.

It increases opponent EO's cast on that minion, except for DM.

It increases ED's cast by that minion, but not EO's.

And it increases the skill trained on that minion.

Is this correct, then?

Rubberduck[T] [Hell Blenders] September 28 2006 3:50 PM EDT

"It increases ED's cast by that minion, but not EO's."

No, it increases ED cast on that minion, check the changelog for Jon clarification.

QBOddBird September 28 2006 3:56 PM EDT

Thanks Border, that clears that up as well.

Sorry for all the misinterpretation, but this is one of the more oddly working items in the game, and I was just trying to make sure I understood how it works correctly.

Maelstrom September 28 2006 3:57 PM EDT

From my understanding, there are the following effects. (And I think the increase is actually 3% per plus...)

- trained skill is increased per plus

- EDs cast on that minion by anyone on your team are increased per plus, for that minion only

- EOs cast on that minion by opposing team are increased per plus (So EC will drain more of that minion's ST/DX, DM will dispel more of that minion's ED, AMF will block more of of that minion's DD)

bartjan September 28 2006 3:57 PM EDT

Just like opposing DM decreases all enchantments cast on you, the AoF increases all enchantments cast on you. The differences are that the AoF works as a percentage, and also does its magic on the skill the wearer has.

I'm wearing the AoF on Pitr. The AS, VA and Evasion cast on him is boosted (by 3% for the moment, not 2%) as well as any AMF or EC any opponent casts on him (as an enchanter, he does not fear those anyway).

Tezmac September 28 2006 4:16 PM EDT

Wait, are we sure that DM cast on an enchanter wearing a AoF isn't amplified? If this definitely is the case, then why wouldn't every enchanter be wearing one to increase the AS/GA/Prot they have cast on them?

Maelstrom September 28 2006 4:17 PM EDT

I thought DM _was_ amplified on that minion...

Tezmac September 28 2006 4:18 PM EDT

I thought so too, but Chappy seems to disagree up in Post #2.

Rubberduck[T] [Hell Blenders] September 28 2006 4:20 PM EDT

Do you people read the changelog?

Maelstrom September 28 2006 4:29 PM EDT

" Any enchantment cast on this minion will have its effective level increased. (Post-DM, if any. DM itself is not affected.) "

But it's in parentheses! You're not supposed to read things hidden in those! :P

But yeah, looks like you're right. When's the next free untraining time? ;)

AdminShade September 28 2006 4:54 PM EDT

it affects your minion's skills

it affects ALL spells being cast on your minion

it does NOT affect any spell cast by that minion on other minions.

chappy [Soup Ream] September 28 2006 4:59 PM EDT

Sorry for the confusion .. I obviously misread the changelog. So it affects the EDs being cast on the minion wearing the AoF pre-DM ... that's interesting :) So it is a benefit to minions that pretty much train skills only? PL walls / Evasion walls?

Rubberduck[T] [Hell Blenders] September 28 2006 5:05 PM EDT

I give up :)

Maelstrom September 28 2006 5:08 PM EDT

I'm confused, but I think I don't need to change my strat...???

Rubberduck[T] [Hell Blenders] September 28 2006 5:16 PM EDT

Ok I'll try to make it unambiguous :)
DM casts as normal against all minions ED, the remaining effect is amplified by the AoF on the minion wearing the it. EC and AMF cast by your opponent are also amplified versus the AoF minion. Skills trained by the wearer are amplified.

Flamey September 28 2006 5:22 PM EDT

you can still have it on UC tanks. in fact, it has most benefit to UC tanks.

could help on transformer teams. main thing is UC, go UC :)

ranger made a point, that a wall could use an AoAC instead, in the wiki.

you know the wiki helps, anyone consulted the wiki? ;)

QBOddBird September 28 2006 5:34 PM EDT

*shrugs* The Wiki is player-made, so it is just as susceptible to misconceptions. I simply thought making a thread to flesh out exactly how it worked would be good. And I'm glad I did - not only do I know how it works now, EXACTLY, but so do the other several who apparently were a little confused themselves ~_^

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] September 28 2006 7:10 PM EDT

BL has it straight as an arrow. That's how it works! ;) Just 3% per point atm than the original 2%... ;)

AdminNightStrike September 30 2006 6:52 AM EDT

I'm guessing that a wall is prime for an AoF, since the magnified AMF means nothing, and the magnified EC means very little. However, the skill boost (Evasion or PL, depending on your strat) is wonderful, and the bonuses to things like AS, Protection, and perhaps GA are quite useful.


If a Wall thrives on AC, and you lose the AC from the AoAC, is that tradeoff worth it? I have an AoAC of +20 on a wall with a total AC of 250. AS casts for a little under 300k per minion, and Protection is at exactly 27. If I sacrifice the 20 magical AC for, say, a +10 AoF with Evasion trained, will that be worth it?

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] September 30 2006 7:42 AM EDT

You can work out how much virtual HP 20 AC gives, then if 30% more AS beats that, use the AoF. ;)

AdminNightStrike September 30 2006 11:30 AM EDT

How much virtual HP does 20 AC give?

bartjan September 30 2006 11:49 AM EDT

1/(1-0.0021*20)=1.0438. So 20AC boosts your HP by about 4.4%.

QBOddBird September 30 2006 11:54 AM EDT

30% more AS *definitely* beats that.

bartjan September 30 2006 12:00 PM EDT

What I calculated is 20AC. The outcome is different if you're asking for a 20AC *difference* ...

AdminNightStrike September 30 2006 3:23 PM EDT

Can you elaborate? The AC calculation is one that I totally do not understand. From the wiki:

"Multiply base AC by a random amount from 100-200%. Subtract this value from the damage. For physical damage, reduce the remaining damage by approximately 0.21% for each point of AC (including base value). For magic damage, only enchantment (plus value) reduces damage."

I suppose that's clearly written, but I just don't understand the finer points behind it.

AdminShade September 30 2006 3:31 PM EDT

Every point of AC blocks 0.21% damage.

so 100 (base) AC blocks 21% physical damage.
100 enchanted AC blocks 21% magical damage.

when blocking that much damage you effectively gain an amount of HP

the amount is calculated by dividing 1 by the percentage of damage which still hits you.

i.e. 21% blocking = taking 79% of the damage.

1 / 0.79 = 1.265 which makes a 26.5% bonus to HP.

AdminNightStrike September 30 2006 6:42 PM EDT

How does this play a role then?

"Multiply base AC by a random amount from 100-200%"

QBOddBird September 30 2006 6:44 PM EDT

That's the standard damage you'll block - between your base AC and twice your base AC of physical damage is blocked. Then on top of that comes the % blockage.

bartjan September 30 2006 8:01 PM EDT

"Multiply base AC by a random amount from 100-200%"

This means that besides a percentage, AC also blocks an absolute number of damage. For newbies that's nice, for as long as the incoming damage is a few dozen.
For bigger characters, this part of the AC formula is more or less irrelevant, as it at most blocks 600 damage on a 300AC setup. That's why we most of the time completely ignore this part of the AC formula.

AdminNightStrike October 2 2006 3:34 PM EDT

Ok, I understand now. However, AC would not give a percentage boost to virtual HP just once. It gives that for every hit, no?

bartjan October 2 2006 3:37 PM EDT

If you recalculate AC into a HP bonus, that's already taken into account.
Same way as a DX bonus works for each turn.

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] October 2 2006 5:25 PM EDT

For example, if you had enough AC to reduce all damage you took by 50%, this in essence means you need 200 Damage to 'kill' 100 HP, so your AC has given you a virtual +100HP . Or gives you a 100% increase to your HP. :) No matter how many hits it takes.

I hope this helps!

With your current AC, and your total HP, you can work out how much extra HP additional AC would give, and could then see if you would gain more HP from AS instead. :)

bartjan October 2 2006 5:42 PM EDT

Just as GL said, but one step further: take a big sheet of paper, and write down the play-by-plays of a few imaginary battles, against an opponent that does for example exactly 1k damage per blow for example.
Figure out how much HP you would need to survive say 10 of those hits without wearing any armor (hint: 10k) and how much HP you would need when you are wearing a certain amount of AC. Divide those numbers and you get your "HP bonus".

Because of the AC, the incoming hits are lower than the initial 1k. Because of that, you could do with less HP in order to survive the same number of rounds.
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