Do we need ammo amounts? (in General)

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] October 11 2006 1:14 PM EDT

Or can we get away with all ammo being inexhaustable?

The speciality ammo should become rarer, the only reaosn I can think of having ammo numbers is being a cash sink.

But, because ammo is a cash sink, no one spends that much on them, making them not cash sinks anyway (although the option remains).

Also, with the upgrade costs being cheaper the lower amount you have, this leads to super pumped defensive ammo. I'm really looking forward to pumping a stack of 50 or so Ex Shots and only using them for defensive purposes.

If we adjust upgrade costs, and got rid of amounts, this would even out ammo usage. Also, adjusting upgrade costs (scaling the pth on ammo back to one for one, but decreasing pth increase costs for example) would return some of the cash sink to ammo.

With the changes to Ranged and Mele attacks, we won't see the problem of someone using a super ELB and super IA as thier only wepaons, or if they do, they will be heavily penalised for doing so.

Is there any reason to keep Ammo numbers?

BootyGod October 11 2006 2:12 PM EDT

I am in favor of this. I don't like tanks taking advantage of seekers only for defense. That may be their purpose, but either make cooldown apply for ammo, or take GL's advice :)

AdminQBnovice [Cult of the Valaraukar] October 11 2006 2:34 PM EDT

this idea would allow tanks to use seekers for fighting...

BootyGod October 11 2006 2:34 PM EDT

But keep it reasonable :)

Stephen Young October 11 2006 2:37 PM EDT

Answer = Yes.

Reason = Many. One being realism. Ammo depletion tastes better.

QBOddBird October 11 2006 4:01 PM EDT

Meh, realism's no excuse in a game where your minions may blast fire from their hands to scorch their opponents. ~_^

But I agree...Why would anyone even USE normal ammo anymore with Inexhaustible Slayers? Inexhaustible Exp. Shots?

Also, how would you determine the prices of ammunition upgrades when they are no longer 'per arrow', since there are no ammo amounts?

Just raising some questions that need answering.

BootyGod October 11 2006 4:05 PM EDT

Why not just set a cap on arrows?

With bows customizable and the new system of naming, I don't see any reason why not.

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] October 11 2006 6:37 PM EDT

Why would anyone use Tulwars any more when you can get your hands on a Morg?

It's the same thing. Items get replaced in CB.

We could start to do thinks like make the AoI hide targets again, and let ammo compare it's plus to the AoI (probably have to let the AoI be upgradable) to see whtehr it get's past it's seeking thing or not.

Tank would be able to use seekers actively. But then they wouldn't be able to use slayers. The only time people use seeker now days is on defense. Why not add this element of startegy back intot he active game.

Have ammo like IAs. Each rare you purchase is one arrow you can use each fight. So if you hit three times in each ranged round, you would need to purchase nine rare Slayer arrows.

You have you time/cash sink, realism (why can't I go cut out my arrows from my dead oppoents?) if it's needed and still keep ammo not only releveant, but reason to have rare ones as well.

AdminShade October 11 2006 7:31 PM EDT

<simple>cash drain</simple>

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] October 12 2006 2:31 AM EDT

Instead of having the cash drain being 30K every couple of days to keep your x1 +0 arrows at 9000, make ammo worth using and upgrading, so your spend the 30K every couple of days forging you ammo.

Same cash sink.

Does having a finite amount of ammo, having to manage this, and only using base or near base ammo, make CB more fun?

If so don't change it.

AdminShade October 12 2006 4:13 AM EDT

imo to be a bit realistic, an archer or crossbow user will always need to buy new ammo when it's shot...

also, you will use that stack of 50 exp shots when somebody higher than you attacks you and you win, it still isn't profitable then.

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] October 12 2006 4:40 AM EDT

After taking milions of damage for three rounds to all minions a couple of times, I expect people higher up to stop farming me. ;)

Are we really trying to be reliastic here though? What is a seeker arrow? You don't get those realistically. So is it un realistic to think that the magic arrows could be re useable?

Why can't I cut out the arrows from my dead foes and re use them?

Zoglog[T] [big bucks] October 12 2006 6:14 AM EDT

Technically 90% of bolts and arrows in real life weren't re-useable due to the point on the end bending during impact, some were ok but many had to just be thrown away but I still think we should get IA's back and a crossbow equivalent but obviously making the damage factor extremely small again :)

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] October 12 2006 6:17 AM EDT

And technically, Armour would be punctured and have to be thrown away, or weapons edges dulled. Etc.


Do we really want to get realistic on this?

Fight 100BA then your armour disappears as your leather boots get burnt to cinders by that massive Fire Ball you just faced...

Zoglog[T] [big bucks] October 12 2006 6:22 AM EDT

Why not, lets just turn this into a text-based version of Diablo :D
I'm joking of course but my ammo costs never really seem that high, granted I only usually fire between 5 and 6 a fight even after the change and I refuse to pay more than 2x NW for my slayers but as one of the few reasonable cash sinks in the game which isn't too expensive each time I like it the way it is.
I still think making upgrades to ammo should be a little more worthwhile as an extra 'x' even on 1mill damge only gives 10k extra which seems really poor.

QBJohnnywas October 12 2006 6:27 AM EDT

I like having ammo amounts. There's a certain amount of minor strategy decision involved in buying/choosing/saving ammo, which for me adds to the depth of playing a tank.

Whenever I've run a mage team the only thing I've had to think about in financial terms was the price of BA or trying to save to add another + to my AGs. Tanks have so much more to think about financially. Juggling weapon upgrades, ammo prices and if you get a chance buying BA. Getting better weapons, all the different varieties of bonus items that help a tank.

And do you know what? I like it that way. Leave ammo the way it is now.

QBJohnnywas October 12 2006 6:28 AM EDT

Oh and yes. I love beer.

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] October 12 2006 6:29 AM EDT

Exactly! That's why they're not really a cash sink. Ammo is too expensive to use upgraded normally.

So no one upgrades it, and base ammo is cheap as chips.

Does it really add any fun factor to the game to have to purchase another 9000 x1 +0 arrows from the store every couple of days and merge the stacks?

If it is fun, then I suppose we should add having to repair weapons and armour every couple of days as well.

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] October 12 2006 6:31 AM EDT

"There's a certain amount of minor strategy decision involved in buying/choosing/saving ammo"

Thanks for the answer Johnny, but what is it?

Isn't it just "Do I have enough cash to support using x2 arrows instead of x1. Or "WooT! I've just scored some slayers from auction, I'll use those to fight until they run out"?

QBJohnnywas October 12 2006 6:35 AM EDT

It's a small thing but I like it. (Where have I heard that before?)

Ok, so it only comes under general maintainence of the char but it adds to it for me.

Personally the aspect of ammo that I've never liked or even understood is the ability to upgrade ammo. You have different ammo at different base damage. If you want to boost your damage spend it on the weapon, not the ammo. I said it before, upgrading ammo is like renting the damage, upgrading the weapon is owning the damage.

Never understood it....

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] October 12 2006 6:37 AM EDT

As for strategy, for example I wanted to have a new minion using a Sod and Ex Shots to supply damage to my opponents whole team. But I can't actively use that strategy because of the lack of consistent supply of Ex Shots.

I'm relegated to using Ex Shots as a defensive option. So I will pump a few to outrageous levels. I wouldn't use outrageously sized Ex Shots to actively fight with because of the cost.

Making all ammo inexhasutable would open consistent new doors to strategies.

Seekers are a great example. Make them more available for active use and you open up more strategy. Do you use Seekers to take out mages in Ranged? Or equip the more damaging slayers so you do more damage overall and are not focused on Mage killing?

QBJohnnywas October 12 2006 6:41 AM EDT

I know what you mean, especially as I'm also sold on the usage of ex shot. But for me my strategy is the same on attack as it is on defense. I don't see much point in spending cash to stop people attacking me, when I can spend it more usefully on attacking them.

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] October 12 2006 7:17 AM EDT

Just take a look at the MPB challenge. It only took 100K to get a single arrow to x2500. It'll cost a lite more to get a stack of 50 or so to that sort of level, but imgaine the damage Ex Shots of that size oculd pump out to the whole opposing team on defense.

It would be great for a clan charctaer, you'd lose so much less CPs.

House October 13 2006 2:05 AM EDT

I see the word realistic dropped every other post in here..."realisticly" can an ax/ex bow fire at the same rate as a regular bow (elb/comp)...we zig zag back and forth across the realism line in all aspects of this game. If magic was real, could your fireball realisticaly shoot as far as the famed Elven Long Bow? The best chunk of realism I have seen so far is the loss of one round going into melee as you drop your ranged weapon and grab your melee weapon....... Ammo runs out when you use it....If magic was real , would it to run out the more you used it? Depleting mana with every toss of DD and every other spell uttered by those ugly mage lips. Forgive my ramblings and misspellings, I am heavily medicated for your protection :) .....Flame pn people flame on

Flamey October 13 2006 2:36 AM EDT

i should carp anyone that says CB is realistic, just stop now, before i find you and carp you :)

CB is not realistic and can't be if magic is involved :)
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