Yes, I've got a strategy question again. :) (in General)

Drama [Just for fun] October 31 2006 5:43 PM EST

I would like to know your opinion about if I would have a better strategy with a ToE, or I should keep the RoS.

Belle-Ange HP: 20 ST: 20 DX: 19 AC: 72
Evasion Cone of cold

La douceur HP: 20 ST: 20 DX: 20 AC: 134
Dispel Magic Ablative Shield
Bouclier d'amour HP: 6,951 ST: 28DX: 18 AC: 99
Phantom Link

And if I should use a ToE, is there somebody who would like to exchange for my level 60k RoS.

Miandrital October 31 2006 5:50 PM EST

Unless you have high AC on your non-tattoo minions, I suggest sticking with the RoS. ToE is good at lower levels, but once the damage starts growing faster than the ToE protection, the ToE becomes useless.

Drama [Just for fun] October 31 2006 5:55 PM EST

Yeah but for now I've got a lot of rented items and about the AMF, I thought it may be better.

Flamey October 31 2006 11:57 PM EST

you don't want/need items on your PL minion, you'll be absorbing most of it, so i wouldn't bother getting the other stuff. The TSA and MgS are reasonable because that is only thing that will hit you from behind. make sure you fully equip your CoC mage, that means, MCM (or even MC), AG, CoI, EB (nice AC, boosts evasion) and a nice cabasset.

stick with RoS, its much better than the ToE, and don't advertise FS/WTB in a general thread, create a separate FS/WTB thread :)

Drama [Just for fun] November 1 2006 9:52 AM EST

Would it be better if I untrained CoC and get a UC tank or just a tank instead?

deifeln November 1 2006 11:07 AM EST

Tanks are expensive...why not use MM? :o)

Drama [Just for fun] November 1 2006 1:59 PM EST

Isn't it weak?

deifeln November 1 2006 2:02 PM EST

It is weaker then CoC, but begins hitting in ranged....

Flamey November 1 2006 2:55 PM EST

CoC is the strongest, because it fires in melee, thats 3 rounds that it has to wait before it can even start damaging your opponent.

MM is generally a bit weaker, but still a good option, it concentrates damage into one target and starts hitting from behind, that change had forced players to put a mage wall from behind. MM is often seen, players who want to hit in ranged use it, but do not want to hurt themselves. MM is also seen accompanied by another MM, through another mage or a SF, this is strong, two DD concentrated attacks on one minion.

FB is a bad choice because once you hit melee there is friendly fire, generally a bad idea on a 4 minion team and a bad idea to have GA on the team, GA will reflect damage back to you, because of the friendly fire.

so 4 minion teams have 2 choices for DD, MM or CoC, if you can survive until late rounds, you might as well get CoC, but if you like damaging straight away get MM.

Drama [Just for fun] November 1 2006 3:17 PM EST

I can survive to melee rounds but the AMF and GA really hurts my mage.

Flamey November 1 2006 3:19 PM EST

they'll hurt your mage no matter what spell.

tanks are expensive to upkeep, if you get hurt so much, pump more into AS and HP on the mage.

chuck1234 November 1 2006 4:29 PM EST

MM is also seen accompanied by another MM, through another mage or a SF, this is strong, two DD concentrated attacks on one minion.
[quoting Flamey's post]

Oops, flamey, my mistake [in chat]. You better not have two mages training MM when it can be done by a single mage, coz the AMF will be that much greater. Its like this, the AMF is fixed and acts per minion, so if you train a single mage that AMF will be lower than if you split your exp gain over two mages on whom the AMF will exert greater force. Simply stated, you are allowing x AMF to effect 1/2a and 1/2b, when x AMF will be weaker against 1ab located in a single MM mage.

The advantage of having multiple minions firing MM is that you can finish off more than one minion in a single round; but the AMF disadvantage imho overrules this benefit. So, I've retired my small char ElfAura; and begun a new single MM mage AuraElf with a 169 pc NCB :)

UncleKracker November 1 2006 6:07 PM EST

Does anyone have the ratio of damage dealth by CoC to MM?

And that's all I'm asking -- not that whole deal about MM firing in ranged and CoC hitting multiple targets -- just the CoC to MM damage ratio.

Herbstwind [The Knighthood] November 1 2006 8:17 PM EST

from wiki, dunno if it is what you wanted to know ,)

CoC : The listed effect will asymptotically approach 19% of the spell level, and represents the maximum damage applied to each minion in a five-minion spread. The total damage, therefore, is the effect * 5, or a theoretical maximum of 95% of the spell level.

MM : The maximum MM effect is 48% of the spell level.

Miandrital November 1 2006 10:14 PM EST

Actually chuck, two MMs can be equally as strong as a single mm, or even stronger. AMF does damage based on the DD effect, so increasing your DD also increases your amf retaliation, and this will increase faster than the amf percents falls. Therefore you need to seriously overpower the amf to notice a reduction in the amf retaliation. Keeping this in mind, dual MM could work better than a single MM against certain chars.

AdminNightStrike November 1 2006 11:21 PM EST

heh.. I wrote those things in the wiki :)

That makes me happy.

AdminNightStrike November 1 2006 11:24 PM EST

Miandrital, I'm not sure I agree with that statement of yours. Let's put some numbers behind it (a continuation of shade's post earlier) and see what it's doing for real.

Drama [Just for fun] November 2 2006 12:59 AM EST

Lol, What I love about this thread is that it as started with a RoS strategy question and now the subject is about a double MM mage. I definitly love this cause I'm learning a lot of things without even asking question. Thanks everyone. =)

Kong Ming November 2 2006 1:09 AM EST

If you are going to stick to 2 minions, then either MM or CoC should work well. You should put most of your exp into CoC for the 1st minion and AS for the 2nd minion.

If you are using RoS, you should really consider hiring 2 more minions later on so as to maximise the RoS effect and also add a couple more kill slots ;)

If you using ToE, then you try to let the CoC mage live as long as possible so AMF may be a better choice than DM.
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