Damage Reduction and Guardian Angel (in General)

Do the various methods of damage reduction - AC and the like - reduce the amount of damage you take from GA?

yep

AC does, So I assume the whole AC/Endurance/Protection does. ;)

/me thinks that needs to change...

Why?

Okay, look at it like this.

First of all, it's already difficult to make GA do 60% of damage. Assuming AC/prot/ ToE are not factors.

Simply put, who uses it without building a strategy around it? It takes too much exp to get it to return (lets say 100k damage). As of now, it's dead. It needs a way to compete with VA. I think that if a tank uses VA then GA should have to be trained to similar levels to get the same damage.

Right now, 50 AC offsets that drastically, and even ToA tanks can get over 50 AC. GA hardly affects mages because of ToE, most teams have at least some AC on damage dealing minions, and GA just keeps getting worse.

I am not saying that letting it bypass AC, prot, and ToE would make it better, but it would give enchanter teams some fun, and give another choice to dealing damage besides melee or Magic missle!

Sorry, but I used to love GA until I realized it bit.

Seems to do pretty well against my steel familiar with a protection of 27.

"First of all, it's already difficult to make GA do 60% of damage."

Come on, please. I've invested millions and millions into ST, DX and my weapons to get a MPB of 585k. It would only take a 500-600k GA to return a very great part of that 585k, if it weren't reduced like it does now. You're asking for a "I win button"...

You should experiment with that bartjan. Because I always thought it would work that way and it never did. But maybe I am wrong.

I think border has posted before that your GA must be 2.5x the damage for it to return at 60%. Bart has an mpb of 600k, so he probably hits for around 500k each round, so you would need 1.25 mil GA to return at 60%. Looking at his str/dex, I'd say that is pretty fair.

Yeah but you are not considering is 143 AC and protection, and even is DM. I think Dead is right, the only good strategy with GA is on a 4 minion team vs a mage with FB or CoC (if the mage as not a ToE, DM, AC or Protection). So Dead would need like 2 million and more. If this is fair to you, it's not to me.

GA is crazy strong already. It causes me SO many stalemates because it knocks out my one damage dealer. There is no reason to boost it really....you get back ~half the level you train in it via damage, so this has to be reduced by something.

And he'd only need to train that much to get a solid 60% back. He can put it up near their MPB and get at least 40%, and that's still a lot of damage for a relatively small experience dump.

It is mighty worth it, trust me.

and we're forgetting one thing as well, it'll reflect all damage, Magical and Physical! unlike AMF which reduces opponents DD.

it does make stalemates occur, your damage dealer doesn't have enough HP compared to the opponents' health.

"Right now, 50 AC offsets that drastically"

No it doesn't. Let's assume you're being hit by physical damage. Your 50AC first removes 50-100 damage, then on average 10.5% of what is left...

So if you're hit for 1 Million Physical damage, and your GA is large enough to return 600K of that, 50AC stops about 63,089.5, leaving them taking 536,910.5

Actually a good way of using GA is to use a RoS and AoF. This will definitely help it achieve near 60% return in damage. :)

GA > VA.

VA is dependent on the size of your tank and it's weapons. there is a big difference if you're hitting with a whip or a 25 mil NW BoNE. VA should be trained accordingly to your MPB.

GA is dependent on your HP, that is all, no other factors, well not really (lets not split hairs), if you have HP and AS with meatshields, GA is absolutely great, while your enchanters get hit they reflect damage onto your opponent, and this is happening whilst your Tank is hidden under the AoI and still dishing out damage.

now doesn't that make GA clearly better than using just VA? i use both, i don't regret it, if i had a chance to retrain for free (again) i wouldn't change VA or GA.

As a Phantom Link user, I disagree with you Flamey ;)

well, then, thats the only thing GA disagrees with, PL! :P