Misc Questions (in General)


AdminNightStrike November 9 2006 5:10 AM EST

These are just some things that I've always wondered...

  1. Do you get rewards when people attack you and win?
  2. Do you get rewards when people attack you and lose?
  3. Do you use up ammo when on the defensive?
  4. If you fight someone and are damaged, when will you auto-heal?
  5. How does DX affect CTH?
  6. How much of a DX difference is needed to double hit?
  7. Triple hit?
  8. How does forging NW relate to battle rewards?
  9. What's the minimum damage percentage of effect for DD?

Adminedyit November 9 2006 5:29 AM EST

2. yes
3. yes
4. before the fight begins i believe

AdminNightStrike November 9 2006 5:30 AM EST

For 4, I meant if you don't fight again.

TheHatchetman November 9 2006 5:40 AM EST

1)yes
4) the defensive DX i get from Evasion is enough to make ppl miss when its over their DX by like 9%

QBBast [Hidden Agenda] November 9 2006 5:49 AM EST


4. If you fight someone and are damaged, when will you auto-heal?

Offensively: when you submit another fight or when you click heal.

Defensively: when you submit another fight, when you click heal, or every 30 seconds.

QBBast [Hidden Agenda] November 9 2006 5:51 AM EST


3. Do you use up ammo when on the defensive?

"Yes, if you lose.", yes?

Flamey November 9 2006 5:54 AM EST

you only waste ammo when you win a defensive fight.

chuck1234 November 9 2006 5:55 AM EST

3. You use up ammo only when you win defensive battles.

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] November 9 2006 6:03 AM EST

4: If you fight someone and are damaged, when will you auto-heal?

If you don't fight (which heals both versions of yourself. You won't heal until everyone does. (When comatose targets are healed). Is it once every 30 seconds? (It's not 30 seconds after being fought, everyone heals at the same time.

5: How does DX affect CTH?

Not really sure anymore. ;) about 37.5% at equal dex for a 2H weapon and 62.5 for a 1H.

6: How much of a DX difference is needed to double hit?

Depends on your opponents Dex. Not sure. :(

7: Triple hit?

Dex Can't land Triiple Hits.

Miandrital November 9 2006 6:06 AM EST

8. How does forging NW relate to battle rewards?
Click Me!

QBBast [Hidden Agenda] November 9 2006 6:06 AM EST


Edit:

3. Do you use up ammo when on the defensive?

"Yes, if you win.", yes?

Miandrital November 9 2006 6:08 AM EST

I thought ammo was used for wins or draws when on the defensive?

bartjan November 9 2006 6:09 AM EST

1) $1
2) Yes, if the win was "unexpected" according to CB.
3) See 2)
4) Damage sustained in a battle you initiated is never auto-healed. Damage sustained in battles someone else initiated is, every 30 seconds.
5-7) Dunno. I treat it as "bigger=better", not trying to go for doubles, but for battle wins instead.
8-9) Can you rephrase that?

AdminNightStrike November 9 2006 2:27 PM EST

There seems to be a lack of consensus on number 4. What I have seen is along the lines of bartjan's last remark -- if I initiate the battle, it's never auto-healed.

Regarding 9, what I meant was if I train a DD to an effect of X, the damage in battle ranges from (Y .. 1.00) * X where Y is some number between zero and one. What's the minimum damage possible for a given effect of X?

Regarding 8, I think that other thread explained some of it. What I was going for was: if I forge one BA, that will add a certain amount of NW to an item. If I fight one BA, that will gain me a certain amount of $$$. What's the ratio?

AdminShade November 9 2006 2:36 PM EST

4: you heal back fully every 30 seconds. in between if you aren't killed, someone can fight you again. (bartjan and some others said something similar.

bartjan November 9 2006 2:37 PM EST

8) depends on what you forge and who you fight
9) The effect is the initial damage (per minion, assuming max. amount of victims it can target (i.e. 1 or 5)). This is lowered by various defenses and/or range penalties.

bartjan November 9 2006 2:38 PM EST

Shade: only the damage you sustained in battles others started is healed. The damage that's the result of you yourself clicking 'fight' is never auto-healed.

AdminShade November 9 2006 2:41 PM EST

8: there is no set ratio, every item has it's own efficiency. i.e. ELB forges so much more NW per BA for a set MPR than say DBs or a Corn.

9: this would then be 0.yy < X < 1.zz because with a minimum you also have a maximum (yes lame but true)

you don't mean the 70% 80% 90% cast rate for FB in ranged rounds I presume so I will not take that in consideration.

frankly I don't think anyone atm knows the % ranges of the damage on DD spells, should be easy to find out when fighting a set of duplicate characters...

AdminNightStrike November 9 2006 3:08 PM EST

The effect listed on your home screen is the maximum damage possible. The actual effect in battle ranges from some low to that maximum. So it's not 0.yy < X < 1.zz. It's a range from 0.yy * X to X where X is the maximum effect listed on the home page.

I thought for some reason that it was 50%, but I'm not sure that's true.

Bart, the effect listed is not the initial damage. It's the maximum damage subject to some unknown modifier.

bartjan November 9 2006 3:10 PM EST

Those unknown modifier(s) are protection, AC, Endurance and a few others.

AdminShade November 9 2006 3:13 PM EST

in other words, what would be the maximum damage absorption?

AdminNightStrike November 9 2006 3:22 PM EST

Untrue. If you hit a naked minion, then, it'd be the same damage each and every time. It isn't. It can vary by a metric ton. Even with things like AC, I see variance that's out of this world, much more so than just those defensive measures could allow.

bartjan November 9 2006 3:23 PM EST

Where's Avoid when you need him?

AdminNightStrike November 9 2006 3:25 PM EST

Attack Shaolin Monks with a DD spell to see what I mean. Do it several times. He has no AC, and only AS and GA. I attacked twice, and the damage spread was 200k - 400k.

AdminShade November 9 2006 3:27 PM EST

so if you are naked you would receive the same damage each and every time you say?

and with protection of what sort at all, the damage gets reduced by a million factors making unrealistic reductions? how is that possible then?

AC only reduces in a certain range.
MgS reduces consistently, though in a small range
TSA reduces similar to MgS, though less and less for every next round
Protection reduces in a % also, with a small range
Endurance does this also
AMF reduces in a % also, but lets through a variable amount also.

so indeed, your total damage done can be affected by pretty much factors, if you'd use them all you'd get quite a lot of ranges for minimum damage percentages of effect of DD...

AdminNightStrike November 9 2006 3:29 PM EST

Shade, please attack Shaolin Monks and then see what I'm talking about. I'll give you a familiar if you need one to cast the DD. I'm telling you, there's randomness on the DD side.

AdminShade November 9 2006 3:33 PM EST

I don't have a DD spell...

but DD spells on their own, don't have a range in which they cast. when attacking a character without any protection i.e. naked, it casts for the same amount over and over again.

AdminNightStrike November 9 2006 5:16 PM EST

"I'll give you a familiar if you need one to cast the DD."

Shade, I'm telling you... it's not constant. If I send you a FF, will you please do me a favor and see for yourself? Or, if you like, I can post the battle log against myself and Shaolin. That might be easiest.

AdminShade November 9 2006 5:19 PM EST

I have fought the char with another character of mine with fireball, and indeed those damages aren't constant.

why, I don't know... perhaps you should check if it is either one of the spells which was being cast?

AdminShade November 9 2006 5:19 PM EST

Also: for FB, have you checked the amount of minions it is cast on?

AdminNightStrike November 9 2006 5:21 PM EST

It happens with MM from my SF, as well. I only said I'd send you a FF because that's all I have that won't cost an arm and a leg for you to prove to yourself that which I already know.

AdminNightStrike November 9 2006 5:22 PM EST

Here's Shaolin Monks:

 The Helper   HP: 20     ST: 20    DX: 20    AC: 0  
            Ablative Shield         
 
 The Protector   HP: 20     ST: 20    DX: 20    AC: 0  
            Guardian Angel         
 
 The Magician   HP: 20     ST: 20    DX: 20    AC: 0  
           Dispel Magic          
 
 The Necromancer   HP: 25,000     ST: 20    DX: 20    AC: 0  
          Decay           
 A Jigorokano Familiar  
 

AdminNightStrike November 9 2006 5:24 PM EST

 Play-by-play
MyFirstNCBShaolin Monks
Imia cast Antimagic Field on The Necromancer (0.94)
Imia cast Ablative Shield on all friendly Minions (280825)
Alod cast Protection on all friendly Minions (23)
The Magician cast Dispel Magic on all enemy Minions (80,660)
The Helper cast Ablative Shield on all friendly Minions (34058)
The Protector cast Guardian Angel on all friendly Minions (?)
enchantment effects that cannot be determined before combat are displayed as '?'
Ranged Combat
Imia's familiar's Magic missile hit The Necromancer [254569]
The Necromancer's Guardian Angel smote Imia's familiar (20109)
R.I.P. The Necromancer
 
Imia's familiar's Magic missile hit Kano-san [262276]
Kano-san's Guardian Angel smote Imia's familiar (19465)
R.I.P. Kano-san
 
Imia's familiar's Magic missile hit The Magician [529246]
The Magician's Guardian Angel smote Imia's familiar (15743)
R.I.P. The Magician
 
Melee Combat
Pina pulverized The Helper with Khaos Hammer [112021]
Pina draws strength from his weapon! [6815]
The Helper's Guardian Angel smote Pina (10060)
Pina pulverized The Helper with Khaos Hammer [110077]
Imia's familiar's Magic missile hit The Protector [525367]
The Protector's Guardian Angel smote Imia's familiar (15743)
R.I.P. The Helper, The Protector
 

AdminNightStrike November 9 2006 5:25 PM EST

There you can see that the first melee hit dealt less damage than the last ranged hit. I'll fight him again as soon as he heals to show you how wildly different the results will be.

AdminNightStrike November 9 2006 5:28 PM EST

Now here, look at these results. Look at how vastly different these damages are:

 Play-by-play
MyFirstNCBShaolin Monks
Imia cast Antimagic Field on The Necromancer (0.94)
Imia cast Ablative Shield on all friendly Minions (280825)
Alod cast Protection on all friendly Minions (23)
The Magician cast Dispel Magic on all enemy Minions (80,660)
The Helper cast Ablative Shield on all friendly Minions (34058)
The Protector cast Guardian Angel on all friendly Minions (?)
enchantment effects that cannot be determined before combat are displayed as '?'
Ranged Combat
Imia's familiar's Magic missile hit The Necromancer [380613]
The Necromancer's Guardian Angel smote Imia's familiar (20109)
R.I.P. The Necromancer
 
Imia's familiar's Magic missile hit Kano-san [356183]
Kano-san's Guardian Angel smote Imia's familiar (19465)
R.I.P. Kano-san
 
Imia's familiar's Magic missile hit The Magician [507493]
The Magician's Guardian Angel smote Imia's familiar (15743)
R.I.P. The Magician
 
Melee Combat
Pina pulverized The Helper with Khaos Hammer [119842]
Pina draws strength from his weapon! [6815]
The Helper's Guardian Angel smote Pina (10390)
Pina crushed The Helper with Khaos Hammer [87275]
Imia's familiar's Magic missile hit The Protector [341005]
The Protector's Guardian Angel smote Imia's familiar (15743)
R.I.P. The Helper, The Protector
 

AdminNightStrike November 9 2006 5:33 PM EST

254569 / 380613
262276 / 356183
529246 / 507493
525367 / 341005

Normalizing due to ranged penalties, we have:

363670 / 543732
327845 / 445228
588051 / 563881
525367 / 341005

So that's a range of 327845 at the low end to 563881 at the high end, using a MM with an effect of 603531. That's insane. However, it looks like my guess of 50% to 100% might be right.

AdminNightStrike November 9 2006 5:34 PM EST

Correction: 588051 was the largest blow.

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] November 9 2006 6:06 PM EST

Shade, Bart, a long time ago I posted a thread about the damage variance on FB, and asking whether it was too large, as once or twice I would hit for an enourmous amount versus the usual I did, on the ame targets.

DD damage is variable, same as physical damage.

AdminNightStrike November 13 2006 1:04 AM EST

So here's what I found so far:

  1. Do you get rewards when people attack you and win?
  2. You only get a dollar, and I'm guessing zero XP. Correct?

  3. Do you get rewards when people attack you and lose?
  4. This only happens if you win while CB fully expected you to lose. So basically, you can't make someone rich or powerful by repeatedly fighting them (for the most part).

  5. Do you use up ammo when on the defensive?
  6. This only happens if you win while CB fully expected you to lose. So basically, you can't drain someone's ammo by repeatedly fighting them (for the most part). Similarly, ammo is not limitless.

  7. If you fight someone and are damaged, when will you auto-heal?
  8. You won't. Clicking 'Fight' or 'Heal' is a manual operation, and the 30 second thing only applies when others fight you.

  9. How does DX affect CTH?
  10. ???

  11. How much of a DX difference is needed to double hit?
  12. I'm still left with Ranger's estimate that 5000 DX is enough to land double hits on a 20 DX minion, and 10k DX is too much.

  13. Triple hit?
  14. Apparently, this is not possible with DX alone. I find that odd, however. I would think that it's just a very large number.

  15. How does forging NW relate to battle rewards?
  16. This varies per item, and Miandrital's link gives good detailed analysis.

  17. What's the minimum damage percentage of effect for DD?
  18. The widest gap I found was from 54% to 96%. I rounded to make it 50% to 100%, which sounds familiar based on information that I vaguely remember from a long time ago.

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