Junction (in Changelog)


AdminJonathan January 9 2007 12:27 PM EST

So here's the skinny:

Junction transfers items' effects _on the minion training junction_; it does not duplicate the items themselves, or item intrinsics. So MH's aura does not get duped -- the MH aura only affects the MH, not a bow on the same minion -- but AC does. (Someone posted that AC does not -- if so that's a bug; it's intended to work.)

To repeat: no current weapons do anything that would qualify for Junction.

Junction transfers both positive and negative effects (such as armor dx penalties) but as junction gets higher it can block out the negative. At 1.0 you get 100% of the positive effect for most things, and 150% for ST and DX. At 1.0 you get 0% of the negative effect. Junction operates on the aggregate of a given effect, so if you have a TSA equipped as well as EG, you won't get 0% of the TSA penalty and 150% of the EG bonus; first the bonus and penalty get added, THEN junction is applied.

To get 1.0 you need to have 1/5 of your tattoo's effective lvl in Junction. (It started out as 1/5 of your DX/ST/spell, whichever was highest, but changed this morning.)

QBRanger January 9 2007 12:30 PM EST

Jon,

So the effects on the minion wearing the items do not apply to the minion, only the familiar?

smallpau1 - Go Blues [Lower My Fees] January 9 2007 12:33 PM EST

TSA and familiar?

And does this mean we ned to train junction for STR and DX items to add to ToA now? Was automatic before i think...?

GO PATS January 9 2007 12:34 PM EST

ToA isn't a familiar I think, and TSA can't be worn with a tattoo anyhow.

smallpau1 - Go Blues [Lower My Fees] January 9 2007 12:36 PM EST

Jon makes it sound like TSA can be worn with one, lol

And i was just making sure that it was ONLY familiars and not all tattoos

AdminJonathan January 9 2007 12:48 PM EST

effects apply to minion and familiar, but only the familiar's end are modified by junction

yeah, TSA was a bad example :)

horseguy001 January 9 2007 12:49 PM EST

Junction transfers items' effects _on the minion training junction_;

My impression is that the minion training junction does not have to wearing the tatoo to transfer the effects.

I like it :D

horseguy001 January 9 2007 12:49 PM EST

clearly my impression was wrong hehe

Angel of Death [Hell Blenders] January 9 2007 1:31 PM EST

how about familairs on enchanters?

Talion January 9 2007 1:44 PM EST

Ok, I tested with an AoI and I know for sure that the invisibility effect did not transfer to my familiar. He was hit by a melee weapon before my minion was. My minion was in front of it (I tested without the AoI first).

I don't know if the Evasion effect transfered though? Is it supposed to?

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] January 9 2007 1:47 PM EST

"At 1.0 you get 100% of the positive effect for most things, and 150% for ST and DX. At 1.0 you get 0% of the negative effect."

Right, time for a list of possible Junction effects. ;)

Modifier to STR (up to 150% of item bonus)
Modifier to DEX (up to 150% of item bonus)
Modifier to DD (up to 100% of item bonus) - No Familiar has an EO/ED
AC (up to 100% of item bonus)
Invisibility (?)
PTH Reduction (?) (Up to 100% of item bonus)

Talion January 9 2007 1:47 PM EST

Invisibility is (0%). I tested it.

AdminJonathan January 9 2007 1:49 PM EST

invisibility does transfer, but remember both familiar and minion will be invisible so if nobody else is left it will be the same as if neither was

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] January 9 2007 1:51 PM EST

:) Probably the biggest use for Junction. ;) Apart from buffing your DD familiars with an AG on your enchanter of course!

Talion January 9 2007 1:53 PM EST

About invisibility...

My minion doesn't have any DD spell or weapon, but my familiar was still hit first.

Shouldn't my minion get hit first if it's standing in front of my familiar (when both are supposed to be invisible)?

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] January 9 2007 1:59 PM EST

Jon, does the increase to UC from a HG transfer over to a JKF when Junctioned?

AdminJonathan January 9 2007 2:24 PM EST

"does the increase to UC from a HG transfer over to a JKF when Junctioned?"

yes

QBJohnnywas January 9 2007 2:26 PM EST

UC, Helms and the Jig.

So, presumably the increase in skill level from elven gear crosses over to the Jig's UC as well? Nice if it does!

Miandrital January 9 2007 2:28 PM EST

Junction is a little too accurate right now: Junction: 100 (0.00334343049342)

AdminJonathan January 9 2007 2:29 PM EST

"the increase in skill level from elven gear crosses over to the Jig's UC as well?"

yes, subject to the discussion about penalties vs bonuses in my first post

QBJohnnywas January 9 2007 2:34 PM EST

Yeah, I was taking penalties into account. I think you've been a little too fair on the penalty side, lol. I was half expecting the penalties to be passed over the junction link intact! You're going to get a reputation for being generous Jon!

Miandrital January 9 2007 2:35 PM EST

So basically, a single FB mage could equip +100 dbs and a steel familiar, and BOTH minions will have the +100 db effect, correct?

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] January 9 2007 2:44 PM EST

Knew I had another question! :P

Does the item naming bonus get transfered over by Junction?

TheHatchetman January 9 2007 2:44 PM EST

I guess, but neither would have the help of Evasion. And there would be some major XP dilution on the FB mage trying to keep junction where it needs to be...

AdminJonathan January 9 2007 3:11 PM EST

"Does the item naming bonus get transfered over by Junction?"

yes

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] January 9 2007 3:24 PM EST

Thanks Jon! :D

AdminQBVerifex [Serenity In Chaos] January 9 2007 4:07 PM EST

Also: free-untraining, where are you?

deifeln January 9 2007 4:08 PM EST

possibly Jon is not done yet :o)

TH3 C0113CT0R January 9 2007 4:20 PM EST

Does that mean if you use a jig and were gear that hurts UC the Jig will be hurt by it? I would think so

Talion January 9 2007 4:35 PM EST

Ok, this is my last post about this because if Jon doesn't believe me this time, I will give up on the issue...

Invisibility does not get "joined" to my familiar when my minion is wearing an AoI.

My latest test involved an attack on "The Night Spirit", and my familiar was actually shot at before some of my "visible" minions. However, the minion equiped with the familiar and wearing the AoI was decapitated last.

"The Night Spirit" is using an Elven Bow equiped with Named Arrows.

AdminJonathan January 9 2007 4:38 PM EST

post a fight log

Talion January 9 2007 4:40 PM EST

Play-by-play
Crusher The Night Spirit
Nullifier cast Dispel Magic on all enemy Minions (277,852)
Nullifier cast Vampiric Aura on Crusher (?)
Blocker cast Protection on all friendly Minions (7)

The Night Spirit cast Antimagic Field on Nullifier's familiar (0.16)
The Night Spirit's Protection fizzles under Dispel Magic

enchantment effects that cannot be determined before combat are displayed as '?'

Ranged Combat

Crusher's explosive shot hit The Night Spirit [60273]
Nullifier's familiar takes damage from his own Magic missile (9793)!
Nullifier's familiar's Magic missile hit The Night Spirit [113985]

The Night Spirit struck deep into Crusher with The Arc of Night [498641]

R.I.P. Crusher

Nullifier's familiar takes damage from his own Magic missile (11192)!
Nullifier's familiar's Magic missile hit The Night Spirit [77447]

The Night Spirit skewered Nullifier's familiar with The Arc of Night [679065]
The Night Spirit struck deep into Nullifier's familiar with The Arc of Night [709276]
The Night Spirit skewered Nullifier's familiar with The Arc of Night [803985]

R.I.P. Nullifier's familiar

The Night Spirit hit Blocker with The Arc of Night [322903]
The Night Spirit skewered Blocker with The Arc of Night [360462]
The Night Spirit struck deep into Blocker with The Arc of Night [253973]

R.I.P. Blocker

Melee Combat

The Night Spirit's Chill of Night went snicker-snack! [193574]
The Night Spirit's Chill of Night went snicker-snack! [158360]

R.I.P. Nullifier

QBSefton [Black Cheetah Bazaar] January 9 2007 4:42 PM EST

I honestly think it is related to the named arrows and/or the named elbow, than the junction skill.

QBRanger January 9 2007 4:42 PM EST

Talion,

What level is your junction and is its effect (1.0)?

If not then the invisibility is not at 100% effect.

Talion January 9 2007 4:45 PM EST

The effect is 0.01, but even then, my familiar should be shot at after my Wall (Blocker), which is not equiped with an AoI.

QBRanger January 9 2007 4:46 PM EST

With an effect of only .01, i suspect the invisibility works only 1% of the time.

So the fight order is correct, your familiar is in front of your wall, thereby getting hit before it. However, 1% of the time your familiar will be invisible.

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] January 9 2007 4:47 PM EST

I think the effect for things like Invis is all of nothing. Either you have it at 100% and your familiar is invis, or you don't and he rightly get's targetted before your last minion.

TH3 C0113CT0R January 9 2007 4:48 PM EST

but at 0.01 who says its even getting any effect, maybe even a negative effect because its so low compared to 1.00

I dunno just maybe

Talion January 9 2007 4:50 PM EST

What GL says makes sense. I will try to get the skill over 0.5 during retraining and I will run more tests.

Godpanda January 9 2007 5:03 PM EST

Hey, it doesn't appear in Stats> Character Attributes.

Will that take awhile, or just not been added yet or what?

noneedforthese January 9 2007 5:27 PM EST

lol if it's all or nothing, that could get annoying as you burn thru BA and your tattoo lvls up and may drop below 1.0 effect :P

AdminQBnovice [Cult of the Valaraukar] January 9 2007 6:14 PM EST

Thanks

Xiaz on Hiatus January 9 2007 9:43 PM EST

To repeat: no current weapons do anything that would qualify for Junction.

I'm looking forward to the new weapons that can be utilised with Junction! :D

AdminJonathan January 9 2007 11:40 PM EST

switched invisibility to always transfer no matter how weak junction is

Arorrr January 10 2007 12:11 AM EST

That is weak, Jon. Leave too much for abuse of AoI. Should make it either 0.5 or 0.3. The point here is the return of investment. A base training in Junction shouldn't automatically grant Invisibility.

QBRanger January 10 2007 12:19 AM EST

I do agree with Arorr.

That is mighty powerful for under 500 xp in total.

Just do it as a % like it was done with archery in the old days. A certain % that the AOI will work on the familiar in each combat.

AdminJonathan January 10 2007 12:27 AM EST

you're forgetting opportunity cost

spending a slot that could be used on evasion or BL on making your familiar invisible, that is not a no-brainer

GnuUzir January 10 2007 1:02 AM EST

I seem to have lost my familiar, it is still equipped he just does not want to fight for me any more...

AdminJonathan January 10 2007 1:31 AM EST

fixed

GnuUzir January 10 2007 1:33 AM EST

Thanks!

Jon always on the ball ;-)

Shooto January 10 2007 2:19 AM EST

Right but couldn't you just equip the familiar on an enchanter with an AoI that wouldn't train evasion anyways? I agree that there should be a minimum for it to always work or at least make the number a percentage of how often or how much will actually transfer over.

noneedforthese January 10 2007 3:12 AM EST

But then there's the added jolly of having the enchanter minion also being invisible... is that more efficient than, say, simply a well placed tat?

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] January 10 2007 3:56 AM EST

Sorry Jon, another question.

Does an AoF transfer over with Junction? So a Jig (for example) would get the increase to UC (but maybe not Endurance, if it's not classed as a skill?) and any enchantments cast upon it?

Kong Ming January 10 2007 5:10 AM EST

So do evasion from a pair of DBs get transferred to the familiar?

QBRanger January 10 2007 7:46 AM EST

Jon,

A tank would never use a familiar.

And just put the familiar on an enchanter to get the AOI effect. Enchanters do not need evasion. Perhaps PL but certainly not evasion.

The benefit of getting invisibly for less then 500xp is very powerful.

Big PAPA January 10 2007 7:48 AM EST

switched invisibility to always transfer no matter how weak junction is

--Jonathan, January 9 2007 11:40 PM EST

Might just be me but this does not seem to be working.

Talion January 10 2007 8:25 AM EST

As Big PAPA wrote... it is not working. My familiar is still getting hit before the minions behind it.

QBJohnnywas January 10 2007 8:32 AM EST

'QBPopsicle Man, 7:46 AM EST
Jon,

A tank would never use a familiar. '


Not true. There are a few tanks out there with familiars. And if this new archer familiar is good enough you may see a few more.

QBRanger January 10 2007 8:33 AM EST

I meant to type, a tank (except for solo ones) would never WEAR a familiar.

An enchanter would and let the tank use BL as it should.

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] January 10 2007 8:34 AM EST

I fought Big Papa to see what's happening, and I attacked Odloru (his first minion), Ebil's Familiar, then Thenor. Missing out Ebil himself, who is wearing an AoI.

Invis isn't working on Familiars. ;)

QBJohnnywas January 10 2007 8:38 AM EST

I thought that might be what you meant! I do think there will be more people trying it out though. Probably in the shape of a WT, heavy ac on the wall and familiar on the tank.

But I do agree that Junction seems to be giving a lot for very small investment.

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] January 10 2007 9:10 AM EST

I've got a .69 junction effect and in the play by play my Hal is showing as having zero AC. The E he's on has about 39. Should any of that have transfered over?

QBPixel Sage January 19 2007 1:04 AM EST

Don't think this has been answered. Does Junction allow a familiar to use HoC's double first strike?

QBRanger January 19 2007 1:05 AM EST

Yes,

The new Helm does link.

Of course only a SF, HF or FF can use that ability.

QBPixel Sage January 19 2007 4:13 AM EST

Hmm... MM mage with a SF with the HoC. Four hits in the first ranged round. Might that make a spiffy team? =)

Flamey January 19 2007 4:16 AM EST

Pixel, Sutekh and I believe PoisoN shortly.

Heath316 January 23 2007 1:41 PM EST

Is the AoI working yet? It is suppose to work at .01 junction but it's not?

AdminJonathan January 23 2007 2:10 PM EST

"It is suppose to work at .01 junction"

no

TheHatchetman January 23 2007 2:13 PM EST

at 0.01 junction you have a 1% chance of it working...

Heath316 January 23 2007 2:14 PM EST

Ok just making sure. I saw this post above.


switched invisibility to always transfer no matter how weak junction is

--Jonathan, January 9 2007 11:40 PM EST

This thread is closed to new posts. However, you are welcome to reference it from a new thread; link this with the html <a href="/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=001zmw">Junction</a>