Any1 as mad about this as me? (in Off-topic)


TheHatchetman January 13 2007 6:38 PM EST

This is wrong!

The Terminator, while living up to his name, has gone too far
by allowing this...

Sir Leon [Soup Ream] January 13 2007 6:47 PM EST

You must be one of those people that think America is a democracy, eh?

Stuff like this happens all to often. The media sells it for the politics so they can pass bills/laws to mandate the "problem."

TheHatchetman January 13 2007 6:53 PM EST

The problem now, is the doggy Holocaust we have going on... This is sick! I'm not one of those 'we need to protect our environment, and make sure that no living thing ever dies.' type of people. I know the environment is screwed, i know things are dying out all over the place. But they're not only allowing the extinction of an animal in this case, they're mandating it! Simply put: WRONG!

btw, before i confirmed this, i re-read it, and realized it could be construed as an argument against Loch at first. but that's not my intention as i see he agrees, at least, somewhat.

bartjan January 13 2007 7:35 PM EST

I wonder why it took California this long to come up with a ban against Pit Bulls. In our country we have legislation banning breeding of pitbulls for almost 14 years now...

Slashundhack [We Forge Our Own Stuff] January 13 2007 8:42 PM EST

Man who cares Its just a breed . Lots of other dogs many who aren't likely to try and eat your face.If you really need a face eater get Mr. potato head to move in with you.

Hyrule Castle January 13 2007 8:49 PM EST

i bet a dog pinched a loaf on his property or something, and he was all like, "ill get you back"

In the "ill be back" voice :D

Zoglog[T] [big bucks] January 13 2007 9:04 PM EST

No breed is a vicious attacker if you know how to treat them right, the reason Pit Bulls are considered that way is that they can be a little temperamental and also for their size.
The personality of a dog comes from the way they are brought up, I have many friends who have breeds such as German Shepherds and Pit Bulls that are extremely friendly to anyone.
I have always found that smaller dogs such as Jack Russels and Yorkeshire terriers are worse because people mistakingly buy them/adopt them as a 'small, manageable dog' and don't give out the true attention that they really need.
My dog back home is a cross between a Staffordshire terrier (thought to be very dangerous dogs) and a whippet (very active) which we got from an abandoned dogs home.
We expected the possibility of problems but having bought her up from 18 months old in a loving environment she is a very friendly dog. The only time she comes close to attacking is when she sees what she thinks is physical violence (playfighting etc.) but even then she has learned to only use enough force to drag our hands away from each other rather than actually biting.
She still has the instinct when it comes to certain animals such as cats and rabbits but we keep trying on that front and have to just keep hoping things improve.

On topic, something does need to be done when it comes to breeds that are brought up badly all the time. I agree that forcing them all to be neutered/spayed is slightly over the top but that websites 'Lets share the love' approach wont stop the criminals training them as attackers.

InebriatedArsonist January 13 2007 9:31 PM EST

The law is certainly idiotic, but that's the People's Republic of California for you. The law won't accomplish much of anything, and it placates the whiny, "we fear X this week" crowd. According to this study dogs have been responsible for around 300 deaths from 1976 to 1996 in the United States. Nationally, an average of ten people per year, and that data covers all breeds, not just pit bulls. What a waste of time.

Relic January 13 2007 9:40 PM EST

It has been proven that certain breeds of dogs are hostile, violent, and by nature attackers/killers. It is the responsibility of Government to keep the citizens safe and this is a way to help make that happen.

If you have not known someone who was or been personally involved in a dog maiming, or attack, then your outcry is completely unfounded. Some dogs are dangerous and pitbulls can very easily attack and kill a person in a matter of minutes.

Drama January 13 2007 9:42 PM EST

Just like that, would you like someone stronger than you forced you to breed yourself with an other person, just to create a child that is stronger and more aggressive so he will win fights against other breed person.

Zoglog[T] [big bucks] January 13 2007 9:53 PM EST

Rarely does any breed of dog that is within a loving household with owners who know how to treat and discipline a dog correctly attack without a good reason.
Even well over 90% of attacks on people by the 'hostile' breeds are caused by bad owners, cockfighting or as a retaliation for a physical attack or the constant winding up of the dog.

InebriatedArsonist January 13 2007 10:25 PM EST

Glory: It has been proven that certain breeds of dogs are hostile, violent, and by nature attackers/killers.

-Citation, please.

It is the responsibility of Government to keep the citizens safe and this is a way to help make that happen.

-By wasting time with something that isn't a serious problem to begin with? These sorts of laws won't protect anyone, and will only attempt to kill off one breed that has become unpopular in the media. Want a real way to cut down on maulings? Try enacting laws that ensure owners are responsible for their dogs and enforce laws against dog fighting.

If you have not known someone who was or been personally involved in a dog maiming, or attack, then your outcry is completely unfounded. Some dogs are dangerous and pitbulls can very easily attack and kill a person in a matter of minutes.

-I view that as irrelevant. I know people who have been hit by drunk drivers, and I don't want alcohol to be illegal. I know people who have been attacked by thugs wielding firearms, and I don't want firearms confiscated and banned. Worry about individual dogs and their owners, not hype about how deadly pit bulls supposedly are.

TheHatchetman January 13 2007 10:40 PM EST

"If you have not known someone who was or been personally involved in a dog maiming, or attack, then your outcry is completely unfounded. Some dogs are dangerous and pitbulls can very easily attack and kill a person in a matter of minutes."

Couldn't you also place the loveable [German Sheppards] in the same spot as [pitbulls]? Great Danes can jump 6 foot fences often enough, and unlike the previous two, can knock a person down with ease. Rotweilders are usually in the same boat as pits, but they're the black sheep of the 90's I guess...

The point is, just about any animal can be dangerous, but I guess someone has to abuse the hell out of them for years and make them fight each other before the pit bull is out of the dog house...

Maelstrom January 13 2007 11:21 PM EST

"loveable German Shepherds" ???

When I was a kid, I had a babysitter who had a German Shepherd that had been a police dog... but the police had to get rid of it because it was too vicious. So they sold it to the public! It was a horrible, violent beast. I can't stand German Shepherds.

The thing is, many of the larger and more vicious dogs are not bred to live in cities or to live around people. They're bred to hunt other animals, and to guard properties. They need lots of open space, not be confined to a small apartment. And they definitely should be trusted around children.

That said, as much as I dislike those animals, it's a problem with the owners, not the dogs. You know, kind of like "guns don't kill people, people do".

AdminJonathan January 13 2007 11:22 PM EST

I have no idea who is in the wrong here, but I'll just point out that

Zoglog[T] [big bucks] January 13 2007 11:47 PM EST

you have to love the irony behind extremist organisations :)

thanks for that link Jon, proves a very good point that there are bad people out there trying to justify their actions as being good.

DERPA [Red Permanent Assurance] January 14 2007 12:59 AM EST

First and only time I saw Penn & Teller's show, which I thought was great, was this very episode. Enjoyable as this may be is quite unPG. Notice what's on the plates during the intro alone. We don't need OpVines getting frisky again so can we edit the link out making a reference to this video being found on youtube or a similar change?

Slashundhack [We Forge Our Own Stuff] January 14 2007 1:24 AM EST

I think these kinds of laws are just knee jerk reactions to a few fight trained dogs getting loose.The law is wrong in one way but probably right in the only way to stop dog fighting .Still its only a breed there fore expendable and some breeds are more dangerous ie: Collies are supposed to be one of the top biters.

TheHatchetman January 14 2007 2:46 AM EST

Great. Ban pit bulls. Euthanize Lassy. I kicked by a horse twice, lets get them too.

TheHatchetman January 14 2007 5:09 AM EST

Typo...should've read: I *got* kicked

AdminG Beee January 14 2007 5:16 AM EST

Just another statistic , huh?

I think the dogs should be destroyed and the owners should be neutered.
I don't think I'd be allowed to let my pet lion wander around the street without a leash. Next you'll be advocating that Joe Public should be allowed to carry firearms. Oh, wait...

Flamey January 14 2007 5:19 AM EST

lol.

TheHatchetman January 14 2007 5:45 AM EST

So a little girl dies and pit bulls should all be destroyed? Should all breeds that have ever taken a human life be destroyed? Raccoons have killed people, destroy them too? Next time someone gets stomped to death by a horse, them too? Little kids fall out of trees and break their necks, time for project deforestation?

Hell, lets get rid of alcohol, tobacco, cars, guns, knives, sharp sticks, and even scissors, while we're at it... Humans kill more humans than anything, let's do away with those too...

ResistanZ January 14 2007 5:52 AM EST

Gun, I'd appreciate a little maturity. I was mature enough to come to you and apologize to you and I don't see a reason for you to bring up my name weeks after being involved in any big arguments. I especially don't see any reason for you to be insulting me in this thread considering I hadn't posted in it before now.

QBBast [Hidden Agenda] January 14 2007 5:54 AM EST

Don't be ridiculous, Hatch. Raccoons have not been bred, by humans, for greatest combination of propensity and ability to kill. Horses and cars and scissors, while all quite dangerous, have higher/other purposes.

See Wikipedia's entry for "fallacy".

TheHatchetman January 14 2007 5:57 AM EST

So... the pit bull is at fault for humans messing with them for years?

Okay then, scrap the whole thread it makes sense now.

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] January 14 2007 5:58 AM EST

And Firearms? ;)

InebriatedArsonist January 14 2007 7:06 AM EST

G_Beee: Just another statistic , huh?

I think the dogs should be destroyed and the owners should be neutered. I don't think I'd be allowed to let my pet lion wander around the street without a leash. Next you'll be advocating that Joe Public should be allowed to carry firearms. Oh, wait...


-Not that lions and dogs are exactly similar, G_Beee. And luckily for me, the great state of Pennsylvania recognizes the right of citizens to carry firearms in public, concealed and otherwise.

Bast: Don't be ridiculous, Hatch. Raccoons have not been bred, by humans, for greatest combination of propensity and ability to kill. Horses and cars and scissors, while all quite dangerous, have higher/other purposes.

See Wikipedia's entry for "fallacy".


-So, are you suggesting that all working dogs above the size of a beagle should be neutered and/or killed? In this day and age, more than a handful of the larger members of Canis lupus familiaris have useful qualities, more so than other animals kept in the company of humanity. Most breeds weren't developed for "propensity and ability to kill" as you put it, but for an assortment of other uses. Would you also kill off the German Shepherd and Rottweiler breeds simply because some of their members are abused and poorly handled, and thus behave dangerously around humans?

As to anecdotal evidence, I have yet to meet a pit bull raised by normal, decent human beings that isn't a complete sweetheart. The only pit bull that has growled at me was justified in doing so, and changed completely once the owner appeared. Would you view protecting small children on the family property as good behavior, or would do you view that as an instinctual propensity for killing?

QBJohnnywas January 14 2007 7:16 AM EST

All dogs have the potential to be dangerous, but it's the breeding not the breed.

We used to own Rottweilers; we had three of them, two males and a female. The female was moody, when we walked them we had to keep her on a leash. But the two males were gentle. Until they were doing what they were trained for, working as guard dogs. Then nobody but us could go near them. They were working dogs first, pets second.

A lot of dogs were originally bred to be working dogs, guard dogs, hunting dogs, herding dogs. Putting them into a domestic situation can be tricky, putting them somewhere where they don't get enough exercise, physical and mental, can turn a dog. But it isn't the dog's fault, it's the owners.

Adminedyit January 14 2007 8:08 AM EST

My Neighbor has a Pit Bull. It is a horrid dog. Every time I go out to get in my vehicle I have to walk by where he ties it up (we live in the same apartment building) it growls barks and snaps at me and strains on the chain it is tied up with. It has gotten to the point that I am forced to use the rear exit of my apartment just to circumvent going near this beast. Please don't suggest talking to the owner that has been done several times and it is my opinion that he is just as ignorant as his dog. Now my main concern is this I have a 4 year old son that is a healthy, intelligent boy that loves playing outside. Again that is ruined by the idiot next door and his even stupider dog.

QBBast [Hidden Agenda] January 14 2007 8:33 AM EST

IA, shame on you.

QBOddBird January 15 2007 3:16 PM EST

I would put in my input on the topic, but when I was younger I was a victim of a dog attack myself, and would like nothing more than a raygun that'll turn dogs into small dog-shaped jellybeans that I can squish on the sidewalk.


That goes for all dogs.


However, I do like some dogs. Teacup chihuahuas are my favorites, because they make this little 'Yealp!!' noise when you step on them.

TheHatchetman January 15 2007 3:22 PM EST

But then again, as Bast says, you have a break from reality...

Relic January 15 2007 5:48 PM EST

IA,

First let me say, not once in my previous post did I say anything about certain dogs being violent toward humans, but there is a landslide of evidence and studies (search for them yourself if you are curious) about certain breeds of dog that are fighters and yes even killers. Why do police train German Shephards as K9's?

With that said please see some of the citations below.

"Dog breeding is the vocation of mating carefully selected specimens to produce specific qualities and characteristics." see "dog breeding" wikipedia.org

"As with all domesticated dogs, the ancestors of the large breeds of fighting dog were wolves. The foundation breed of the fighting dog was, in its outward appearance, a large, low slung, heavy breed with a powerful build and strongly developed head.

Dog breeding in its earliest stages was carried out systematically, with the desire for specialization. It is believed that the development of individual breeds took place in narrow geographic areas, corresponding to the performance required in these regions. The selection for performance, complemented by the breeding for suitable body forms, leads to the formation of breeds. The task of the fighting dog demanded specific basic anatomical traits and temperamental features. The anatomy of the fighting dog requires an imposing outward form to instill fear, with the foundation breed naturally large, low-slung, heavy, powerfully built, with a strongly developed head, powerful biting apparatus and a threatening voice. The goal is to breed a dog that will attack animals but is docile and affectionate towards humans. All breeds with a character suitable for protecting humans and fighting wild animals may be considered for dogfighting." see "dog fighting" at wikipedia.org

Also see "list of dog fighting breeds" at wikipedia.org

If certain dogs have been bred for specific purposes through time like aggressiveness and fighting ability in pit bulls. Then it stands to reason that people are ignoring the genetic hardwiring that these dogs have by taking them as pets, and the entire argument that just because a dog hasn't attacked someone, does not mean that they cannot or won't.

Maybe you have to have children to have a different perspective on this topic, but if I had a neighbor that had a dog that was a so-called "fighting dog breed", I would ask them to chain it up and I would build a fence.

I am not singling out pit bulls or any specific breed, however, I truly believe that you are playing with fire if you chose to have a dog that has shown overtime and been bred for aggressive behavior. All it takes is one attack on a close loved one to change your view on this topic. Also, if you want to blame someone, blame the people over time that have bred certain traits into dogs that have made them prone to attacking either other dogs, or humans in some cases.

AdminShade January 15 2007 5:51 PM EST

I like cats better :)
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