This is why CoC still really really sucks. (in General)


QBRanger January 14 2007 8:38 AM EST

Even with the boost to damage.

With the free untraining I can now state why.

Magic missile: 4,363,857/3,305,953 (2,073,812)

Vs Lorenzo with a 1.96 Million AMF (not including the corn)

Robert The Bruce cast Antimagic Field on The Grid (0.32)
The Grid takes damage from his own Magic missile (169389)!
The Grid's Magic missile hit Hamish [420096]

vs someone without a MgS:
The Grid takes damage from his own Magic missile (169389)!
The Grid's Magic missile hit Robert The Bruce [1120156]

And Hamish has a MgS and 266 AC

Now lets see about the same level CoC

Cone of cold: 4,363,864/3,305,958 (967,780)

Robert The Bruce cast Antimagic Field on The Grid (0.32)
The Grid takes damage from his own Cone of cold (523321)!
The Grid's Cone of cold hit William Wallace [353553], Princess Isabella [560677], Robert The Bruce [329925], Hamish [162535]

My mage is dead the last round.

You can come to your own conclusions but there is no way CoC is worth it, given the fact you lose 4 MM's (don't forget the HoC give MM mages an extra shot while CoC mages do not benefit from it), and you do not start doing damage till melee round. That 3 rounds of doing nothing means your taking damage all that time while MM mages are possibly killing minions decreasing the damage to your character all that time.

CoC still sucks!!



Brakke Bres [Ow man] January 14 2007 8:41 AM EST

Make the HoC so that decay and CoC fires in the last round of ranged?
That could make it worth while

noneedforthese January 14 2007 8:43 AM EST

I cannot believe how bad that damage is. I would've expected numbers double that.

Oh, and taking nearly 600k from AMF for that measly increased and UNfocused damage?

to your last statement - amen.

QBRanger January 14 2007 8:44 AM EST

Also I forgot to mention,

Look at the AMF damage!!!

Massive with the CoC, yes your doing more damage but still.

I use a TOE which helps lower AMF damage and the COC backlash overwhelms its ability to handle it.

Another reason I have said MM is far better than CoC.

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] January 14 2007 8:57 AM EST

"Robert The Bruce cast Antimagic Field on The Grid (0.32)
The Grid takes damage from his own Magic missile (169389)!
The Grid's Magic missile hit Hamish [420096]"

Total Damage: 420,096
% Damage to self/Total Damage: 40.3%

"Robert The Bruce cast Antimagic Field on The Grid (0.32)
The Grid takes damage from his own Cone of cold (523321)!
The Grid's Cone of cold hit William Wallace [353553], Princess Isabella [560677], Robert The Bruce [329925], Hamish [162535]"

Total Damage: 1,406,690
% Damage to self/Total Damage: 37.2%

So with CoC you deal about 3 times the amount of damage per round, but take about 3 times that much back. ;)

Fair trade off really.

QBRanger January 14 2007 8:58 AM EST

GL,

Now try vs his other non MgS wearing minions.

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] January 14 2007 9:00 AM EST

Then you'ld have to post what your CoC does to his three minions *after* his MgS one is dead. To get a fair comparison.

QBRanger January 14 2007 9:02 AM EST

vs someone without a MgS:
The Grid takes damage from his own Magic missile (169389)!
The Grid's Magic missile hit Robert The Bruce [1120156]

I posted it GL, read above.

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] January 14 2007 9:05 AM EST

Not what I ment. To compare your MM hitting a single target under 0.32 AMF with your CoC, you must post you CoC spreading damage over the other three non MgS minions.

Otherwise it's not a fair comparison.

CoC damage is reduced by the spread. It will obviously be lower than MM versus a non MgS minion if you hit a MgS minion as part of your CoC attack.

Even if you discount the damage done to that MgS minion, it's still reduced your CoC damage overall.

You can't compare a non MgS attack to one that includes a MgS.

QBRanger January 14 2007 9:13 AM EST

Not sure I understand GL

The Grid's Cone of cold hit William Wallace [353553], Princess Isabella [560677], Robert The Bruce [329925], Hamish [162535]"

Hamish's MgS only helps him not the others.

Take away Hamish's MgS and double the damage done to him (considering the max a MgS can be is +50). Even then were close on the damage/AMF ratios.

Then consider your still losing 4 MM attacks on your opponent all the time sitting back doing nothing. During those 3 missile rounds, if you used MM, you could be killing off your opponents minions and possibly taking less damage also.

As I stated above, the TOE (which a lot of mages use) cannot handle the extra CoC damage to reduce it while it can the MM backlash. So with the same ratios for CoC and MM (amf backlash/damage done) who would not choose MM over CoC?

horseguy001 January 14 2007 11:49 AM EST

I wonder with the damage increase of CoC if it could be a bizarre kind of heavy mage spell.

Highish AC would reduce the AMF backlash by a good amount, in conjunction with a ToE. I mean, the penalties would be -37% to your spell, but if you used AGs and a CoI that could be dropped to -15%, as well as having +250 AC.

Don't know if its even possible, but interesting to think about it I suppose :D

Adminedyit January 14 2007 11:51 AM EST

I could be wrong but I don't think AC reduces AMF backlash.

horseguy001 January 14 2007 11:53 AM EST

Yeah you are right, ToE is the only thing that can reduce the backlash.

Well CoC really is up that non-PG creek without a paddle :D

Tezmac January 14 2007 12:19 PM EST

Yep, this was the month I finally had to switch over. I hung on hoping Jon would realize it needed some love. But I figured this might be the last time I could untrain for free, I couldn't gamble any longer. :O\

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] January 14 2007 12:29 PM EST

/Sheepish :)

Oh yeah Ranger, that would be a good way of working it out. ;) I'm tired atm! In that case, MM far out performs CoC.

;)

It would be;

MM Damage: 1,120,156
MM Backlash: 169,389

CoC Damage: 1,569,225
CoC Backlash: 523,321

CoC does 1.4 times the damage, but takes 3 times the backlash.

All for the priviledge of attacking three rounds later, and not being able to use a HoC.

No reason to use CoC over MM at all.

Drama January 14 2007 5:07 PM EST

Finally, someone brings a good proof on that cause I'm fighting since my beginning. Will I need to wait next change month to maybe make a change on it?

Thanks Ranger and GL

Flamey January 15 2007 4:05 AM EST

Good work.

There is no possible way, to not believe it now.

the HoC was a bad move in favour of CoC, CoC still would of sucked even with the 15% damage boost and without the HoC.

sorry, If I missed something, but why does CoC take so much more backlash in comparison?

Xiaz on Hiatus January 15 2007 4:19 AM EST

Such a shame, where did the CoC's glory days go?
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