Suggestion: A New Class of Weapon? (in General)

[T]Vestax March 19 2007 2:18 PM EDT

I'm thinking that weapons like the Halberd, a long pole weapon, should hit before the others. That being said, it might be worth it to have a class of weapons that hit at the end of Ranged 2. It means we would need a new high class weapon, either a regular rare, or a new supporter item. Its a flame-able thought.

MissingNo March 19 2007 2:21 PM EDT


QBRanger March 19 2007 2:21 PM EDT

Sounds nice,

What if someone has an elb and "halbard" equipped? Would they fire or slash in the last missile round?

Unappreciated Misnomer March 19 2007 2:25 PM EDT

since its a lengthy weapon it can have a longer range, so it can hit 2 ppl in one round or another way to put it, it can hit the front most minion for full damage and some of that damage is carried to the next minion...penalties include being 2 handed...obvious cannot be equipped with a shield

also as a pole type weapon it could have a piercing quality that bypasses some ac but not reducing it like the vb.

[T]Vestax March 19 2007 2:27 PM EDT

PM, I'd guess that they would try to switch weapons earlier. It would be the choice weapon for a melee heavy strategy.

Talion March 19 2007 2:28 PM EDT

How about a special Staff Sling that can be used in range to throw shots AND in combat to hit opponents (i.e. No transition round).

It could be a rare 2-handed weapon that does slightly less damage than the Executioner's Sword during combat and about as much damage as a crossbow during ranged.

Of course, it could not be equipped with any other weapon (ranged or combat).

GO PATS March 19 2007 2:58 PM EDT

I don't think that's a bad idea, but I think the upgrade costs for this dual weapon would have to be very high, to counteract the fact that you are only spending money on one weapon instead of two.

[T]Vestax March 19 2007 3:01 PM EDT

That may not be necessary, all pole weapons would naturally be 2-handed. They may also get a minor penalty in melee, as those kinds of weapons are slightly less useful in close combat.

Talion March 19 2007 3:09 PM EDT

That's a valid point.

Maybe the fact that the damage inflicted would be less than most rare ranged weapons and rare 2-handed weapons, a lot more money would have to be put into the x's to make it efficient at higher levels. So it would even out eventually.

Brakke Bres [Ow man] March 19 2007 3:30 PM EDT

FORS, im sorry but no new weapon class will come to CB :S

MrC [DodgingTheEvilForgeFees] March 19 2007 3:33 PM EDT

Drop it's base damage to 60 something (for the best of this weapon type only, for the rest it should be lower).

Other than that this sounds like one of those "don't really need it so don't hold your breath but it'd be cool" would really shake things up around here a bit with all the big MHs these days.

On the off chance this idea does get used, I'll suggest that it always be weaker than both ranged and melee. So you're doing more damage than ranged sooner than you would with melee but melee does more if it lasts longer.

Slashundhack [We Forge Our Own Stuff] March 19 2007 3:51 PM EDT

I'd still like a length of chain with a blade on one end and a hook or weight on the other.Could have a disarm feature with the hook.

Unappreciated Misnomer March 19 2007 7:02 PM EDT

if this is a fors, then explain the halbred? sure 'new class' wasnt the right choice of words but hey nobody is perfect

regardless of the upgrade cost and base damage what would make this item special/unique to the rest that can be used in a viable cna this fit?

MissingNo March 19 2007 8:45 PM EDT

Halberds are for wussies. Spears!

TBH never enough gabber March 19 2007 8:55 PM EDT

javellins throw and stab, or even throwing axes high damage but you loose some each round so they're a special ammo type

Brakke Bres [Ow man] March 19 2007 9:05 PM EDT

halbers are considered melee, so you have two classes of weapons: melee and ranged. Nothing else, thats it. FORS

smallpau1 - Go Blues [Lower My Fees] March 19 2007 10:10 PM EDT

"Unbounded Spear"

Can be used in range (thrown), and used in melee with no DX penalties, but with less damage than it does in ranged obviously.

smallpau1 - Go Blues [Lower My Fees] March 19 2007 10:11 PM EDT

for it not to be overpowered, give it minimal damage in melee, and the regular two handed weapon DX penalties

Shelingar March 19 2007 10:33 PM EDT

If its gonna hit like an Exec, I fail to see how anyone could call it overpowered even if it could also hit in ranged.

[T]Vestax March 20 2007 1:45 AM EDT

Henk, FORS is not an argument. Also, parts of the FORS has been implemented in the past. Also, I don't quite remember this as being a FORS question.

DH March 20 2007 1:47 AM EDT

i was always fond of the "throwing spear" idea that was tossed around once...basically has "ammo" like arrows but instead of switching to a melee weapon in stop chuckin spears and start stabbin dudes...hehe

QBBarzooMonkey March 20 2007 10:44 AM EDT

Like a pike? Pole arms, in general, were designed for a soldier on foot to defend against an opponent on horseback (dare I say it? "pony back"), or to keep the opponent away from striking distance - i.e. primarily defensive. Once you miss with the tip or blade, your opponent with the melee weapon has the upper hand, and you are left defending blows with the pole part.

The point being that my idea is treat this "new class" of weapon this way. You have the opportunity to strike in the last round(s) of ranged, due to the length. You can continue to strike in melee, and the opposing minion either must continue to use their ranged weapon (at the melee penalty) or can't hit you (whichever would be easier to program :P ).

However, the first time you miss in melee, you cannot strike any more, and the weapon only adds to AC or defensive DX or a reduction in the damage a blow does (Meatshield deflects Killer's blow with pointy stick (20450) ), or something like that.

This would give something for all those unarmed walls a little something to do, instead of just standing around getting hit...

I like slashundhack's idea, too - like a tetsugen (sic). The blade on the end of the wire allows you to use it in ranged, the it becomes a hand held blade in melee. Plus, it has small chance at disarming (maybe per +?), causing the opponent to lose a round to pick up their weapon:

Sensei Boopado strikes Meatshield with Tetsugen (101999)
Sensei Boopadoo disarms Meatshield!

Sensei Boopado strikes Meatshield with Tetsugen (101999)
Meatshield picks up his weapon
Sensei Boopado strikes Meatshield with Tetsugen (101999)

Sensei Boopado strikes Meatshield with Tetsugen (101999)
Meatshield decapitates Sensei Boopadoo (999889)

Just some ideas I didn't think were too "R"... :)

QBBarzooMonkey March 20 2007 10:55 AM EDT

ps The wire/blade thing would be a supporter item, I'd think...


Lochnivar March 20 2007 8:40 PM EDT

Hmmm, Pole-arms could be interesting

1.) Defensive value in melee
good for tanks or mages... but defensive value would have to be linked to strength or defensive dex so that mages and walls don't abuse it with no experience invested.

2.) Given the defensive benefits attacking in alternate rounds might be good (this also would allow a good base damage to be assigned without being unbalanced)

3.) Allows Mages to utilize the benefits at of WA although at a much lower rate than tanks (as it should be). Given that Mage armour is generally a lot lower in AC getting a defensive weapon is maybe not a bad idea.

So basically damage reduction would be as a percentage of the damage that would be inflicted on attack with PTH and 'damage' being calculated a normal, only it would be applied as a reduction of opponents attack.

Lumpy Koala March 21 2007 4:34 AM EDT

Hit first before others, is a good suggestion, but don't make it hit in ranged round. Now in the same melee round, everyone seems to be hitting at the same time, why not make this weapon class always hits first compared to other minions. That being said, if you are able to kill enemy minion before they initiate attack, they won't be able to attack at all, in the same round. Instead of current setup where it appears that every minion gets to attack if they are still alive in previous round.

Example,currently even if you can kill an FB mage in this particular round, he still fires because everyone attacks the same time. If halberd hits FB mage first, and kills him, he will not be able to launch fireball on this particular round.

And they will attack first regardless of minion arrangement. And maybe because they are longer, so harder to wield, they can have the lowest base PTH, a little set back for their minor advantage :)

Brakke Bres [Ow man] March 21 2007 4:56 AM EDT

Again this idea has been introduced so many times, back in CB1 i could remember an idea for a pole weapon that attacked in ranged and in melee.
So maybe this suggestion isn't RS but it sure is FO and will never be implemented. Be glad BTW the only weapon you actually need in whole CB is a huge ELB. nothing in melee.

[T]Vestax March 21 2007 11:00 AM EDT

Henk, it sounds to me that people wanted a weapon that either hit multiple times in ranged, or just once back when ranged round hits were not as many. The thing here is that CB is a lot different these days. MM doesn't fire just twice anymore, it now fires 3 to 4 times. Same with the crossbow. Even CoC and decay has a chance to hit now before a straight melee fighter.

This was simply the introduction of a balancing weapon. One that the old CB never had a need for because ranged fighting couldn't kill you nearly as fast. I only suggested the last round of Ranged, Range 2, be the round this weapon would hit in. Not a Spear of returning that hits every round or a pike able to hit in Ranged 3 or 4. I certainly don't think the HoC should provide any special benefit. All I mean to say is that a long pole weapon should hit before a stinking dagger.

[T]Vestax March 21 2007 11:03 AM EDT

Nonsensical Knight, that sound like a reasonable solution. A weapon that always kills first in the round and is capable of not allowing the opponent to attack if dead.

deifeln March 21 2007 1:06 PM EDT

Maybe make it a skill? First Strike

Lumpy Koala March 22 2007 1:31 AM EDT

Not sure if Jon would buy this :P Since it requires him to change a lot of things, especially how the current battle architecture works :)

DiabloSpawn March 22 2007 11:37 AM EDT

Couldn't the Helm of Clearsight code be used? Except that it will trigger on the melee weapon in the melee phase...that will be easier(?) to implement than trying to make a melee weapon ranged...also it could have a built in blocking function, like a real polearm...
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