Question about PTH/Hits per round (in General)


QBRanger April 6 2007 10:58 AM EDT

In a past post, I think about the HF, Jon stated you will not get 3 hits a round unless you are guaranteed 2.

"NS is correct. Another way of phrasing that is, you won't ever get 3 unless you're first guaranteed of getting 2."

So I would think, that reasoning goes up the chain.

IE you will not get 6 hits unless you are guaranteed 5.

But, in my battle with EoD this happened:

I did hit him quite a few times with my exbow to drain his strength.

One round of missile:
Time hit Prophecies with Platypus Phlegm [980]
Cloudscape absorbs damage [980]
Time shot Prophecies with Platypus Phlegm [1006]
Cloudscape absorbs damage [1006]
Time shot Prophecies with Platypus Phlegm [973]
Cloudscape absorbs damage [973]
Time shot Prophecies with Platypus Phlegm [880]
Cloudscape absorbs damage [880]

Another round of missile in the exact same battle:

Time shot Prophecies with Platypus Phlegm [911]
Cloudscape absorbs damage [911]
Time shot Prophecies with Platypus Phlegm [944]
Cloudscape absorbs damage [944]
Time hit Prophecies with Platypus Phlegm [775]
Cloudscape absorbs damage [775]
Time hit Prophecies with Platypus Phlegm [1074]
Cloudscape absorbs damage [1074]
Time shot Prophecies with Platypus Phlegm [885]
Cloudscape absorbs damage [885]
Time shot Prophecies with Platypus Phlegm [939]
Cloudscape absorbs damage [939]


In that battle, in the 4 rounds of missile, he got 2 Quads, 1 Quint, and 1 Sextuplet.

I am not very confused.

QBRanger April 6 2007 10:58 AM EDT

The last line should be:

I am noW very confused.

QBsutekh137 April 6 2007 11:11 AM EDT

That is exactly why I thought the hits from dexterity and the hits from pth were in separate buckets, all combined at the end, but according to Jonathan, that is not the case.

Did some one die or anything, meaning more shots weren't needed? Wait, that is a stupid question since tanks have no problem pummeling corpses...

I am as confused as you are...

QBRanger April 6 2007 11:15 AM EDT

Nothing changed from round to round.

Same attacker, same defender.

No changes to dex as I can see between rounds.

QBsutekh137 April 6 2007 11:16 AM EDT

By the way, a good subject for this would be the term that NightStrike and GL (and others? Help?) coined called "chance to hit" (CTH). That is the overall chance you have of getting hits in a round, with everything being figured in.

As the Wiki presents, it seems CTH is determined by dexterity gap and PTH being combined into one CTH. That CTH is either zero, 1-100, 101-200, 201-300, etc.

I was not under that impression, thinking that you get your dexterity hits and THEN get your PTH hit(s). I was wrong, according to NS's data and Jonathan's response.

Was there something else that could have been dynamically affecting his dexterity? Or your dexterity?

QBsutekh137 April 6 2007 11:17 AM EDT

He has an axbow...did it ever hit you? His CTH would go up as he draines your dexterity.

QBRanger April 6 2007 11:19 AM EDT

My EC makes his axbow moot, and I have enough dex from my Haste to save my tank from getting any drainage from his axbow.

The PL on Cloudscape takes care of that.

QBsutekh137 April 6 2007 11:29 AM EDT

axbow is the only thing I can think of that dynamically would change CTH.

If the word "clumsier" is no where on your battle log, and if CTH works the way Jonathan's comments would dictate, I am out of ideas... The STR drain should have nothing to do with CTH, and the pth on a ToA surely doesn't increase dynamically so as to change round-to-round CTH...

QBRanger April 6 2007 11:32 AM EDT

And my minion Prophecies has no evasion that changes round to round in missile.

AdminNightStrike April 6 2007 4:50 PM EDT

Different rounds have different modifiers. One of my stipulations was that the circumstances have to be the same. For instance, if you single hit in round 3 with a DX ratio of D, you will never triple hit in round 3 with a DX ratio of D. Everything has to be the same. From your post, it appears to be separate rounds.

AdminNightStrike April 6 2007 4:52 PM EDT

To be more clear, there is a CTH penalty that increases with respect to range. Since you state "in the exact same battle," I can only infer that your two samples are at different ranges and thus have different CTH penalties in the entire CTH rollup.

QBsutekh137 April 6 2007 5:09 PM EDT

What is the ranged CTH penalty, other than the Evasion multipliers?

QBsutekh137 April 6 2007 5:27 PM EDT

From September Changelog:

++++++++++++
Bows (with maxed out archery) now have 90% base to-hit in the 3rd round of ranged combat, except the ELB which has 100% to-hit. Odds are still slightly lower in 1st and 2nd rounds.
++++++++++++

I would expect the sextuplet is because that extra to-hit in the last round of ranged puts his total CTH in the 500-600% range (probably just barely).

If you see quads, quints, and sexes all ine SAME ranged round in subsequent battles, all other factors being the same, then THAT would be an issue. Looks like this makes sense. Freed is right on the cusp of 500% total, maybe around 490-590. So he ALWAYS gets 4s, often gets 5s, and the additional pth in last round of ranged gets him just over 600% leaving him a tiny chance at a 6.

Correct me if I'm wrong, NS.

Mikel April 7 2007 3:24 AM EDT

1 Sextuplet. I scored my first one of those last weekend vs Sut and Sut's reasoning is correct. It only happened for me in the 3rd round of range. First round was quads, other two were quins. This was vs 20 dex minions and me with my ToA on and +167 elb and +30 seekers with 1.0 in archery.

AdminNightStrike April 7 2007 11:34 AM EDT

"Correct me if I'm wrong, NS."

It's not the same ranged round that matters. It's the same range that matters. Wearing one of those fancy helms of clearsight will give an extra round at the same range, so those rounds should be identical (although Jon never made it clear how Evasion works with respect to clearsight, so maybe the HoC round is not identical). The ranged penalty is at least the same... Evasion is probably off.
This thread is closed to new posts. However, you are welcome to reference it from a new thread; link this with the html <a href="/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=0024jL">Question about PTH/Hits per round</a>