Evasion sucks (in General)


miteke [Superheros] April 19 2007 9:46 AM EDT

OK. I have a character with a 1M EC, 600K dexterity, and +80 melee weapon and I can't hit a character with a lousy 900K Evasion and 300K Haste. Ever. This is just not right. Jon, PLEASE fix this. Does anyone out there think Evasion is balanced? Am I missing something?

GO PATS April 19 2007 9:47 AM EDT

Grrarrgrrr... My new strategy is heavily based on Evasion... thread closed.

QBRanger April 19 2007 10:07 AM EDT

Well,

Is your 1M EC the trained level or its effect?

If it is trained 1M, then it is only 500k effect.

So basically:

You have 600k dex vs his 900k defensive dex - 500k EC + 300k Haste (I assume that is its effect) = Your 600k dex vs his 700k defensive dex.

Now a level 900k evasion is about (106).

So your losing the dex battle and your PTH on the weapon is less than his evasion level.

So there is about 0 chance you hit him.

Now, is it balanced? Personally something is needed in missile rounds to combat archery with its one hit kills, however those of us that use melee, unless we use a TOA, are frequently shut out.

QBRanger April 19 2007 10:08 AM EDT

But then again,

As my mama used to say:

"Son, you cannot dodge a fireball"

To combat evasion, on Koy I had to use a familiar. Did not want to, but had to.

Perhaps you can do the same.

Nerevas April 19 2007 10:33 AM EDT

He's talking about my character. My main minion has 1.5mil buffed evasion and 300k dex from haste after AoF. My dex goes to -400k so I still have 1.1mil defensive dex remaining with -134 P2H. Also, you're using a 2H weapon which hurts you some in dex vs dex chance to hit.

[T]Vestax April 19 2007 10:45 AM EDT

A two-handed weapon and a shield no less.

The two teams look disproportionate in size, with Narevas's team being nearly half your size, however it seems to me, judging by the numbers, that the evasion minion is roughly 80% of his teams MPR.

Nerevas April 19 2007 10:50 AM EDT

Yep, the evasion is over 60% of my xp..

Rubberduck[T] [Hell Blenders] April 19 2007 10:50 AM EDT

sure Nerevas ;)

miteke [Superheros] April 19 2007 11:54 AM EDT

The stats I quoted are unbuffed on both sides.

I think it's overboard. I could handle it neutralizing an equivalent amount of DEX OR equivalent pth, but this is just too much. A tank just can't spend enough on Dex and pth to counter a good Evasion. He still has to build strength, hit points, a skill, and xtd. I like the fact that it hoses ranged weapons, but it needs to tone down a bit after getting to melee and the last round of ranged. Right now it is the ultimate tank nuke and you can use it to negate far more experience/NW than it costs. This is particularly nasty on BL tanks since melee tanks are easily funneled onto an evasion minion because of the AoI.

miteke [Superheros] April 19 2007 12:06 PM EDT

"To combat evasion, on Koy I had to use a familiar. Did not want to, but had to. Perhaps you can do the same. "

I came up with this character because I was told you have to have a ToA to run a tank successfully. I wanted to prove it could be done. I was doing fine until Evasion got buffed. Now any character can shut down a non ToA tank with a decent evasion, even mage teams. In fact I do better hitting Tanks with their high dexes and ToAs than a simple evasion grunt.

QBsutekh137 April 19 2007 12:57 PM EDT

(Very) small point of clarification: you shouldn't be hitting "never", but around 5%. Check out the Wiki page called "To-hit". There is a magical 5 in there, and I tested it out when fighting edyit. My Evasion nullified his pth and defensive dexterity his dexterity, so I also got missed a lot -- but he still hit about 4-5%. With a ToE, one gets more hits, so he might go 0/4 five battles in a row, but then hit me (and won) in that fifth battle. He did indeed hit me, even though my Evasion was 154 and his weapon plus was 150, my defensive dex at 2.1 million and his far less than that (his Haste, at the time, was fizzled).

900K is a fairly dedicated evasion, I must say...

AdminNightStrike April 19 2007 1:00 PM EDT

ToE?

Nerevas April 19 2007 1:21 PM EDT

Well its 60% of my xp that serves absolutely no other purpose but defense, and only to melee at that. Also "unbuffed" isn't a fair representation because my evasion benefits more from buffing. One might say your EC completely negating the 9mil xp I have in haste/GS and 50mil I have in weapons is equally or moreso unfair, but its not (well, matter of opinion). Everything has its pros and cons.

QBsutekh137 April 19 2007 1:30 PM EDT

NS, why the question about ToE? I am saying one gets more overall rounds to fight (should have said rounds instead of strikes) due to living longer... More rounds = more swings = more of a chance at getting one of those 5% hits.

AdminNightStrike April 19 2007 1:34 PM EDT

Your text implied that a ToE increases your CTH. I thought maybe it was a typo for ToA. I see what you mean now.

Last Gasp April 19 2007 8:21 PM EDT

I'm waiting for everybody to train evasion because when that happens, it'll be nothin' but stalemates...

Driving me crazy as more and more of my opponents train it and, "pop", off my list they go.

Flamey April 19 2007 8:28 PM EDT

*Cough* Mage *Cough*.

:)

QBPit Spawn [Abyssal Specters] April 19 2007 8:33 PM EDT

eva has to be high to combat ToA, ToA gets around eva, eva does nothing vs mages. things like this are what creates balance.

Last Gasp April 19 2007 8:59 PM EDT

Balance is when ALL things balance each other... those aren't the only strategies out there, only some of the few VIABLE strats... that's not balance that's boredom.

lostling April 19 2007 9:22 PM EDT

i find it horrible.... the fact that you HAVE to use a TOA to get around it is horrible(or increase your PTH by ALOT) =\ on the other hand... perhaps a FF would come in handy....

Yukk April 19 2007 9:37 PM EDT

It's not impossible. I have a non ToA tank and no other offense and checking just now, I'm 24th or something in overall score ranking.
Sure, I may never beat anyone in the top 10 but that's how it goes.
I still appear to be somewhat competitive even though I'm using a RoE strat which completely fails to buff me character at all during a fight.

Karn [Hell Blenders] April 19 2007 9:47 PM EDT

I have to agree with Yukk. Nightstrike's team, the iconics, manages to hit my evasion wall without using a ToA and my evasion is pretty large. So if you want to hit an evasion minion without using a ToA using a single handed weapon helps.

Flamey April 19 2007 9:49 PM EDT

he is UC so his PTH grows by xp not by cash.

QBPit Spawn [Abyssal Specters] April 19 2007 11:47 PM EDT

last gasp: i did not say that those were the only strats or that that makes balance. i was merely pointing out what eva strengths and weakness and said things _like_ this make balance, not this makes balance. like this means there are more things

AdminNightStrike April 20 2007 1:21 AM EDT

Flamey: So? My UC is 131... That's a rather lousy PTH compared to everyone else around my level. And my DX is trash because of having to spend so much XP into UC.
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