An idea you'll all hate. (in General)


QBOddBird May 1 2007 3:01 AM EDT

I was reading through Sefton's post, and noticing the problems he and others pointed out. Competition to be #1 constantly, the cash necessity, the NUB allowing newbies to fly up and gain massive cash, the temptation to multi, the increased knowledge and decreased mystery, overpowered strategies - and I got to thinking about what would solve it.



Well, these are my thoughts on the matter. If the game continues to climb upwards, either the new players have to be given a bonus in order to keep up or the older players have to be penalized....either way, it becomes more difficult for vets as time passes and they are penalized for how long they've played, which is unfair. But it is also unfair for a new player to have no chance at competing. Obviously the game cannot continue straight upwards in this manner, as I see it.

There's also the cash issue. There's gotta be so much cash invested into a tank to compete with the upper teams, or else it is simply a flop in comparison. Mages have difficulties in this competition as well - but there's no solution here, since many have invested so much into this game and deserve their advantage due to their real-life investment.

The mystery of discovery...ah, it is great to compare theories on how things will work, what will work best, how effective it will be - but this is reduced to simple calculations with the discovery itself. Either things have to change at a rate that competes with our understanding - which would be incredibly discouraging to those trying to understand the game - or it goes as it is, where we learn more and more but have less and less left to discover.

Overpowered strategies will always exist. Nothing can be PERFECTLY balanced, there's just no way to do it in a game this complex. Perhaps instead of avoiding the overpoweredness, it could be embraced.

And last but not least, the temptation to mult. At this point, many veterans cannot compete with the top, don't have the cash to NCB, are losing ground against the newer players, and there's only one rule standing between them and the solution to all of this: The multiple account rule. Not only that, if they get away with it without being caught, they can make hundreds of USD out of this broken rule - quite a bit of incentive. If there wasn't so much cash flowing through the game - if people weren't tempted to buy and sell so much - and if so much wasn't so readily available and so quickly, this would hardly be an issue.



So, after mulling over all these thoughts in my mind, I've come up with a solution that you would ALL hate, each and every one of you. Except me.

This game could be played by seasons - say the length of each quarter, or every 6 months or something. At the end of each season, a 'snapshot' of where everyone is would be taken - kind of a highscore board - allowing everyone to still be competitive. There's a reset, everyone's back to square zero, and everyone starts fighting for the top again. This eliminates the USD problem, as you are only spending enough to compete for a season, so there's not as much flying around - though the option is still available for those willing to spend cash in order to make their mark on the game. However, new players could still be competitive, and no bonuses nor any penalties would be necessary.

Supportership would ensure that an account doesn't become deleted due to inactivity, would provide a Supportership item, and would give the benefit of a favorites list still, so it would still be favorable. Heck, we could even let the Supportership items carry over from season to season - just don't allow them to become more powerful over time. No NW investment into them.

There would be no REASON to multi, pretty much.

Now, the mystery part. Jon could make changes, as usual - but no changelog. No details, just every season there's a new change in the gameplay. This is where the 'embracing overpoweredness' comes in. A different strategy would have the advantage each time - Drop BGs' effectiveness and suddenly BL is good, drop the friendly fire from the FB and it becomes far more viable, a little endurance added to the CoC makes it a much friendlier choice - just little things throughout that the players would discover and incorporate. One could still, during this period, investigate and discover logically how and why everything works, and come up with formulas - there would still be that 'mysterious' element, as well - and there'd be more to learn every period.

And there's still plenty to compete for. Imagine, instead of competing for #1, attaining it, burning out, and being totally forgotten as another player takes the top and holds it - instead, your progress is shown for good as a historical benchmark. For Season IV, you were #1, Players X, Y, and Z were 2-4, etc. and people will know you were #1 at that time for good.

There's more to these thoughts of mine, but it is 2 AM and I am tired of typing. I'll elaborate more later. Anywho, it is a good idea IMO, and would bring quite a bit to the game, and would solve the issues that I've seen brought up lately...if anyone has any questions, comments, flames, or love for this topic, feel free to post. I love seeing your opinions, CB! ^_^

AdminQBnovice [Cult of the Valaraukar] May 1 2007 3:06 AM EDT

very well thought out...

Vaynard [Fees Dirt Cheap] May 1 2007 3:13 AM EDT

I can't help but think you read my post of complaints, thanks :) Or at least it sounds like you were thinking of many of the same problems that I was.

And I do like the ideas. Also, Jon could even keep the current CB2, just add in that idea of a resetting 6 month "CB Lite" beside it. Two games, two ways to keep people here and involve them in the community... and chances to restart and see who can take off the fastest. New unknowns and changes and additions would be pure fun and could even yield good ideas for the long-haul CB version.

AdminNightStrike May 1 2007 3:19 AM EDT

Resets are popular amongst a specific type of MMO. CB is not one of them. I actually spoke at length with Ranger about the various methods that MMO's employ to deal with stagnation. CB is no different than WoW, Diablo, Everquest, and even Maplestory (had to reference the recent FS post). There aren't any new and inventive ways to combat stagnation -- there's resets, decay (think diablo items that have to be repaired), and bonuses (the NUB is employed in other games, as well). I think the most unique thing about CB that staves off the stagnation is constant gameplay changing -- very few other MMO's do that. I think what applies best to CB is decay... I think resets just don't fit in the paradigm any more than questing does.

Legend of the Green Dragon is a good example of a game for which resets work out very well, but it's because each player is playing his own game, and he resets when he finishes the overall quest.

Flamey May 1 2007 3:22 AM EDT

Vaynard took the words I was thinking. Don't have this for everyone. Have this like a tournament, it basically is a 6 month long tournament. So normal CB keeps on playing.

QBJohnnywas May 1 2007 3:23 AM EDT

I like the ideas; although right now I'm planning on sticking with the character I'm working with, rather than the four monthly personal 'reset' that I've been doing for the past year or so, so it wouldn't benefit me right now!

What I like most about the idea is the 'snapshot' idea. Plenty of people achieve things in terms of standings that aren't recorded. And because it may only be for a short time the only way of seeing it is in the character graph. For instance on a personal level I know I took a single UC tank into the top ten. But it only lasted about a day until some mage brought me down!

There is still a chance of stagnation - certain strategies are perfect for a quick climb - but still the mystery part would help there.


Nice. ;)

Flamey May 1 2007 3:28 AM EDT

If changes were made every change, then wouldn't that mean only an overpowered strat would be used once and could be totally crap the next time round, or just not as good.

Wasp [Demon Forging] May 1 2007 3:41 AM EDT

Or tourneys can be bought back along side the NCB and NUB, they could also last 4 months (ish). Or just usual tournaments lasting x number of weeks. I don't see why CB2 hasn't got tourneys.. : /

Flamey May 1 2007 3:46 AM EDT

I was actually gonna start a thread and ask that.

I've been here for ages and nobody has really told me (or I forget) why can't we tourneys?

I thought CB2 was really similar to CB1, wouldn't that include the code being extremely similar to CB1, where Tourneys were held? I believe someone has something about the code. So, what could be so much different or that much harder to do it?

DiabloSpawn May 1 2007 7:03 AM EDT

I think its a great idea...many other MMORPG's have 'Ages' and it works for them...of course it could get a tad monotonous when people who burn nearly every BA daily always take the top spot...and it would make forging obsolete...

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] May 1 2007 7:21 AM EDT

i think as a community one thing we need to all understand is that we are less of a priority to our creator than ever before. his life has changed dramatically since he first created carnage blender. he now has a larger family, as well as more work commitments.

as we saw with the creation of cb2, in the changeover we lost some features. i think many of these lost aspects of cb (tournies) were due to time constraints and it just not being worth jon's time. if i remember correctly he has opened some of these projects up for others to code. in some cases it works out, but in the larger ones it either takes a very long time or it falls by the wayside.

with all of that being said and understood, if we do ask for sweeping changes to the game, i think we should expect less of a game than we have now rather than more of one. i had hopes of cb2 being pure, as in no usd influence...it worked out differently. the flawed cb2 (imho) may be better than any cb3 we might get.

Mikel May 1 2007 7:29 AM EDT

if a regular reset is done, tanks will pretty much become obsolete (other than maybe UC tanks), and we might as well call it mage blender. I mean why waste money on a tank when you're going to lose it? The people that spend the most ba on a normal basis will still rise to the top, so I don't this is a real answer.

However, if tourneys were incorporated, it might at least buy some happiness for people, but then I'm sure some would still find a way to complain about it.

noneedforthese May 1 2007 7:39 AM EDT

I like the idea. In fact, if that happened I would play a lot more often :)

As well as the history benchmarking, could we earn 'scores' for placement from each season? And perhaps the score/points could be used to purchase something neat for _one_ round (e.g. a rare weapon/bonus xp etc)...
So someone could come 50th for 10 seasons in a row, and spend all his points at one go and have a real shot at no 1 :)

Better not to dwell on these things, it's like thinking about what you'd do with a million dollars.... *sigh*

Thanatos May 1 2007 8:51 AM EDT

Being a fairly new player, I dislike the idea of a reset.

The N.U.B. Bonus gives me a chance to build a team that can compete. But, as the game goes on the percentage and time will have to be extended, for the next set of new players, to be able to compete. That is the most important aspect of the game. I would not play a game I could not compete in, or at least thought I could.

Older player complain about new players catching up, sounds like they are afraid to compete. This pushes older players to continue, build on and improve their strategy's for their teams. Lets face it a failed strategy at one level, does not mean It will not work at other levels.

I have tried rentals and powered up with them, and have not seen a benefit, lose to teams that have build up the right way, and still beat the ones I was before, but receive less experience and money. :(

As for farming, It would be nice to have a curve put on it so the more you it the same persons, like over a maximum number of times, like 5 or 10, experience and cash would go way down and after 20 or 25 turns, ( the number of time does not matter), there should be some farming, you still want to knock the person down in front of you.

I like the game, and wanted to add my two cents.

Talion May 1 2007 9:08 AM EDT

Here my two cents worth...

Why not give the players the option? Right now, there are 4 realms. Why not create a new world?

So the current 4 realms world stays as is.

The new world, with only one realm, would be a world that resets every year (or every 6 months, or whatever...). No transfers between worlds and only one character allowed in the new world.

It would be like a permanent cyclic tourney.

Eurynome Bartleby [Bartleby's] May 1 2007 9:11 AM EDT

I like Talion's idea veeery much. To keep the interest, put the resets every month or so, that way new players can hop in a starting tourney without waiting for too long. Else they will need to join already started ones where they will have a huge time disadvantage.

Talion May 1 2007 9:25 AM EDT

Ashilizator, I played another cool online game before called Shadowmere. They had resets about 3 times a year and players were fine with that. If the reset is too short, people tend to lose interest become their character has no time to progress.

And the point would not be to attract new players to the new world, but to the existing one so they can burn their NUB and integrate better with the community. Once they know how to play, then they can join the new world when a reset occurs and actually have a chance to compete with experience players.

QBOddBird May 1 2007 10:17 AM EDT

Very good idea, Talion ^_^ it'd be nice to have that running separately...


Mikel - of course there'd be reason to spend the cash on the tank. If you truly don't have to have USD to compete, then the tank is still a viable option - if it is necessary for a viable tank, that's proof something's broken - but people would still spend USD on the game. You personally might not, but others would. Whenever I have seen USD spenders (and I've spent some myself getting my HoCs, RoE, the like) asked why they would spend real money on a game, they say because it is just like any other form of entertainment - and people pay much more for other forms of entertainment, like $7.00 for a 2 hour movie. So some people would pay USD to get some CB2 for a round and make a go at #1, for example.

Thanatos - I wasn't saying there's anything wrong with a bonus to newbies to help them along. In fact, the NUB is a good thing. *BUT*, imagine the discouragement of an older player who watches others with bonus fly past him, though he's been playing for years and always misses a ton of BA during his vacation and work time. The other half to it is, as you said, the fact that over time the bonus has to be increased. How many people are going to stick around and keep from multi-ing when we have a 1000% bonus to cash, eh?

And Flamey, yeah, I was saying the overpowered strategy would be back down to normal next round and there'd be a new 'overpowered' strategy to discover. Or perhaps one that appears to be very strong, but another easily beats it. Like a CoC that has a very powered-up Endurance, and it seems unstoppable, but the UC has a hidden vorpal ability tailored to the CoC's endurance. *shrugs* Just discovering those little things would be enjoyable.


But again, yeah, it'd be nice to have this as a side thing kind of like tournaments...however, I'd be just as happy to have it as the main game. I'm surprised as few people as do dislike it.

Phrede May 1 2007 11:31 AM EDT

I think its a good idea - if it was made the main game I would leave as - I always think of this game as 'long term' there are some weeks I cannot play very much. Thats why I never entered the contests over in CB1. A separate realm as an option yeah - good idea.
A game I used to play was Travian which used to reset every 6 months or so - very frustrating as you just got a decent set of villages together and then the reset occurred.
I am sure this idea would bring in or retain new players.
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