Is there something up with GA ? (in General)

Yukk May 24 2007 11:17 PM EDT

My GA doesn't appear to be doing anything. It's casting, it's just
not fighting back. I think someone must have subbed in a guardian fairy while I wasn't looking.

Eurynome Bartleby [Bartleby's] May 24 2007 11:19 PM EDT

Your GA does not hurt me.

lostling May 24 2007 11:20 PM EDT

GA depends on HP :) maybe its the 20 hp minions?

Yukk May 24 2007 11:28 PM EDT

20 + 1.2M from AS. Last time I check that still worked. At least I think it did. I don't remember any change.

Eurynome Bartleby [Bartleby's] May 24 2007 11:33 PM EDT

Taking hp considerations aside, GA ain't even showing in the rounds details.

LIke, not even a 0 damage return.

Anyway, the reason why will turn out to be super simple once a knowing person chimes in :)

AdminJonathan May 24 2007 11:45 PM EDT


Yukk May 24 2007 11:48 PM EDT

Thanks Jon.

AdminQBnovice [Cult of the Valaraukar] May 25 2007 2:30 AM EDT

ooo spooky...

muon [The Winds Of Fate] May 25 2007 2:31 AM EDT

GA should get vorpalness, too. I mean, come on, it's a supernatural being doing the damage! But, that's just because I'm biased :-)

Brakke Bres [Ow man] May 25 2007 8:22 AM EDT

GA is still broken with no DM in this matter.

Kano-san cast Ablative Shield on all friendly Minions (418266)
Kano-san cast Guardian Angel on all friendly Minions (?)
Guardian Angel: 549,736

Archer cast Protection on all friendly Minions (11)

Archer skewered Kano-san with A base Cow [442886]
Kano-san's Guardian Angel smote Archer (127662)

Archer skewered Kano-san with A base Cow [588611]
Kano-san's Guardian Angel smote Archer (131257)

Archer struck deep into Kano-san with A base Cow [591334]
Kano-san's Guardian Angel smote Archer (130253)

This is bull, my GA is higher then his max damage with the elb, I should retaliate 60% of the 440k damage in this fight its only 30%, 22% and 22% what gives??????? And that protection is too low to make that big a difference and his archer only has 32 AC

QBRanger May 25 2007 8:42 AM EDT

Now what AC is the Archer your fighting.

Remember that AC and a TOE do lower your GA's damage.

PoisoN May 25 2007 9:08 AM EDT

GA description says: "up to 60%", it is usually much lower.

QBRanger May 25 2007 9:19 AM EDT

Also, I believe you GA needs to be MUCH higher than the damage done to you for max effect.

AdminNightStrike May 25 2007 9:23 AM EDT

I always thought it was a simple GA / Damage * 0.60. Then again, I never did any testing with it, and I honestly don't think I ever trained it on any of my characters.

AdminQBnovice [Cult of the Valaraukar] May 25 2007 10:48 AM EDT

RD explained it well to me. GA must be 2.5 times higher than damage done to return 60%.

Brakke Bres [Ow man] May 25 2007 12:01 PM EDT

2.5 times????? ow man GA needs a boost, with those stupid high elb damages, GA never can retaliate 60% back, because the damages are so high.

And to ranger, check my post again 32 AC, no ToE cuz its an ToA archer. and only 11 protection.

QBRanger May 25 2007 12:15 PM EDT

Again, GA does not need a boost. What other ED spell does damage?

Take an equivalent level MM, how much less damage will it do for the xp?

Also, GA is vulnerable to DM while MM is to AMF.

Brakke Bres [Ow man] May 25 2007 1:35 PM EDT

ELB is vulnerable to ????? 410 AC + ToE?

If for every item in this game there is an opposite what is the opposite of an elb?
And please dont say high AC because that answer is just stupid. At even low mpr's a smallish elb does inflated damage.

I dont have 410 AC or a big ToE for that matter

QBOddBird May 25 2007 1:38 PM EDT

You're absolutely right there Henk, except your complaint was focusing on the wrong item ;) it's the ELB that is broken, not the GA.

And if you think the amount of GA necessary for the 60% cap is bull, you should see the backlash I take on my CoC! Now that's bull. =)

Brakke Bres [Ow man] May 25 2007 1:44 PM EDT

That is not GA's fault!!! CoC is so overrated!!!

Seriously CoC backlash is so high, because the damage done by CoC is split between the minions, if you could focus the damage on one minion it wouldn't be as high as it is now.

QBOddBird May 25 2007 1:45 PM EDT

No, actually, CoC backlash is simply about 3 or 4 times higher than another DD spell of equivalent size. Really.

Eurynome Bartleby [Bartleby's] May 25 2007 1:50 PM EDT

It has been proven before, too, though I can't for the love of me find in which thread on this sloooow computer. Exact numbers are all there.

QBOddBird May 25 2007 1:53 PM EDT

Anywho, glad to see the initial GA bug was fixed. ^_^

TheHatchetman May 25 2007 1:55 PM EDT

Here ya go, CoC sucks

Eurynome Bartleby [Bartleby's] May 25 2007 1:56 PM EDT

Thanks :)

QBOddBird May 25 2007 2:01 PM EDT

Thanks for that, Riddles. *grins*

Adminedyit [Superheros] May 25 2007 2:01 PM EDT

"ELB is vulnerable to ????? 410 AC + ToE?"

Big EC or Evasion, or a combination of both works fairly well against most of those pesky archers. Almost everything has a counter on this game, that's why it's so awesome!!!

QBOddBird May 25 2007 2:02 PM EDT

ToA is the counter to the ELBow's counters, unfortunately. ~_^

Last Gasp May 25 2007 2:06 PM EDT

The counter to ELB is Evasion btw. The counter to evasion is MM or FB. The counter to MM or FB is AMF. The counter to... ya see, it all makes sense - there shouldn't be very many 1:1 counters - it should be a rotational counter that always makes you move from one to the next searching for the right BALANCE of offense and defense. That's the beauty of this game - now stop whining about the ELB. :-)

TheHatchetman May 25 2007 2:07 PM EDT

Mikel can hit me even with Evasion: 4,437,662/2,479,141 (211). This is on top of over 2m natural DX...

QBOddBird May 25 2007 2:08 PM EDT

Last Gasp, you missed my post, obviously ~_^ The TOA absolutely creams that counteracting balance.

Drama [Just for fun] May 25 2007 2:16 PM EDT

The counter of the ELB is a (211) evasion, with a 2 million EC, with 410 ac and a huge ToE minion, easy things to get.:P

Last Gasp May 25 2007 5:51 PM EDT

Perhaps then we should speak to the NORMS not the EXTREMES, eh?

Yes, any huge weapon is going to "unbalance" the game, but they are pretty rare. Do you know how hard it is to get a +204 ELB? I have a +50 after months of investing... Getting 100 evasion takes weeks, not months, and now with the lower re-training it can be done in a moment.

I do get tired of people complaining about the extremes without considering what normal people can afford and use.

Brakke Bres [Ow man] May 26 2007 7:18 AM EDT

last gasp, like I stated even smallish ELB on relative low mpr's do monster damage. So its just not only the monster weapons.

Last Gasp May 27 2007 1:34 PM EDT

"even smallish ELB on relative low mpr's do monster damage"

But it can ONLY do that damage if it can overcome evasion (or UC) - otherwise it's worthless. People are complaining about the massive damage ELB does but only 10% of the ELB's out there can actually overcome an evasion of 100. The rest are toast, worthless, a waste of money and time. If you can't hit you can't win. That's why a strat based solely on ELB will never get you to the top. You also need to deal with all those out there with UC and Evasion and AoI as well.

So, we spend all this time complaining about only 10% of the ELB in existence - and the chances of anyone adding to that 10% is minimal - it's just too expensive.

Brakke Bres [Ow man] May 27 2007 1:44 PM EDT

Not everyone is willing to spend so much EXP on evasion, or UC for that matter, because of the simple fact that if you get higher the 10% that can overcome 100 evasion and higher makes the spent exp worthless.

QBRanger May 27 2007 2:19 PM EDT

Use a TOA and you can easily overcome an evasion of 100. All it takes is one hit with a modest ELB and normal arrows to kill.

Especially if one uses BG's which really magnify the elb's and all missile damage.

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