Is it just me? (in General)


Cylo June 19 2007 1:59 AM EDT

Is it just me or do people have no patience anymore on CB? I'm not saying a name or anything, but I make a fs/wtb post looking for a Corn. Also, before anyone says anything about using auctions, there hasn't been one on auction for a while so I went to forums. I get a response back saying someone has one for sale. I respond to that person in under 24 hours and agree to the price listed and that I will get a loan and the money will come as soon as possible. I get this loan and get online tonight and am about to send money and check my chat-mail to see that the item in question has been sold to someone else. The reason being is that he replied before me. This is just shocking and in my mind a bad way to sell things. If a person replies to multiple sales threads and says first one to respond wins then maybe I can understand, but to send a chatmail stating a price and then get a chat-mail back saying deal then a person should stick to it. I know people will say the sale isn't over till it's over, but it just seems like such bad form. Ok I have vented enough and will stick with auctions or people I can trust in the future.

Cylo

TH [money] June 19 2007 2:23 AM EDT

Public Record Agreement...oh wait, you didn't make one.

Mythology [The Knighthood] June 19 2007 2:33 AM EDT

I think nows not the best time to debate it, and Cylo maybe wait a while before responding on here.

For my own part "Is it just me or do people have no patience anymore on CB?" has no reason being there,

and after talking in chat I think the post you made doesnt really make it clear what transpired, the issue at stake is simple and if re-written maybe clearer :
"I made a fs/wtb post, was offered the item I sought, before I could reply to confirm, it had been sold"

As I said in chat, imo this isnt bad selling, its just selling which isnt the noblest of arts, but if everyone were to follow your logic no one would ever be able to ask two people at once if they wanted an item which would make selling things a bit of a long process...

Flamey June 19 2007 2:52 AM EDT

I believe he said that the other person already confirmed and Cylo just needed to get the money together. But then he went off and sold it to someone else.

Zoglog[T] [big bucks] June 19 2007 5:40 AM EDT

This happens in every shop as well in real life so I'm not sure what bad form is.
Any businessman will tell you that for one off deals that will not lead to repeat transactions you always accept the one which can pay you quicker.
They can promise to sell it to you if you can get the money together but that doesn't mean a deal is done, there is nothing keeping them from taking another offer they deem better before any goods change hands. This is exactly the same with shop goods, if you're only going to pay the asking price but need to raise funds and another customer comes in during that time who has the cash to pay up front what does the shopkeeper do? He sells to the customer with the cash obviously.
Bad Form? No, perfectly legitimate business which happens every day all over the world.

Lumpy Koala June 19 2007 5:53 AM EDT

If you are still looking for one, I think I can sell you mine :) Let me know how much the fellow was going to sell you for in CM , I promise I won't run away hehehe

QBBast [Hidden Agenda] June 19 2007 6:03 AM EDT


Zog, there's a huge difference between interpersonal transactions and purchases made from a store.

If I see something in a store or catalog, do not have my purse with me, go to get it and come back to find the item I want is gone ... too bad for me. If I am dealing with an individual and we come to an agreement, I expect it to be upheld.

If the seller does not care to agree to give me the time necessary to complete the transaction, the seller should not agree to the terms put forth which include time as well as price. The key here is "then get a chat-mail back saying deal".

Yes, it's bad form. If one is going to hold out for a better/faster deal, then one says so. "Sure I'll sell it to you, as long as you are the first one back with the money." See: politesse, courtesy.

QBJohnnywas June 19 2007 6:11 AM EDT

It's fairly easy to find out the who what and where involved; it's easy to find out that the other buyer was also getting a loan, from the same loan service, which was handed over at the same time. So lack of patience isn't necessarily the reason here.

I think this was simply about hedging bets; somebody wanted to sell, wanted that cash and didn't want to risk missing out. Easiest way to do that is to offer to sell to more than one person.

Unfortunately I think it's everybody's right to sell or not to sell to whomever they choose in CB. The bad form is not being straight with people in the first place.

Mythology [The Knighthood] June 19 2007 6:15 AM EDT

Bast, "If am dealing with an individual and we come to an agreement",

But they never did, the seller obviously contacted at least 2 people, one of them replied saying yeah, so he sold it, then Cylo said yeah and had missed the proverbial boat.

The seller couldve paid the curtesy (sp?) of msging the other potential buyers saying its no longer on offer, but how many people really cm all the potential buyers to tell them the item they may or may not have wanted is no longer fs?

QBBast [Hidden Agenda] June 19 2007 6:20 AM EDT


*courtesy

"If a person replies to multiple sales threads and says first one to respond wins then maybe I can understand, but to send a chatmail stating a price and then get a chat-mail back saying deal then a person should stick to it." is the key here.

And, yes, I would tell the interested parties an agreement had been reached elsewhere. First, of course, I would avoid telling those people that I was selling to any of them.

Zoglog[T] [big bucks] June 19 2007 6:28 AM EDT

*courtesy

My point was that even though Myth is 100% correct it still doesn't matter what order the events happen or whether it is a shop or an individual offering the goods.
The seller has the right to sell to the first user with the money available, simple as that.
I also know we don't use anything from real Law but I think I'll add in a piece just for effect.
The message sent to Cylo was simply an invitation to treat. Cylo messaging them back by offering the asking price was the offer (no deal RE:Contract yet made).
Since the seller did not accept this offer there is no deal/contract and there is absolutely no reason to give them the 'bad form' tag.

Mythology [The Knighthood] June 19 2007 6:28 AM EDT

This is all for examples sake,

---
Im the seller, have a corn I want to get rid of, I ask novice who needs a corn, he tells me two names

I cm those 2 people and a guy I see wants one in a WTB thread quoting them all the corns stats and the price im asking,

One of them replies saying its a deal, so I sell it to them.
----

At which point did I do something wrong?

QBBast [Hidden Agenda] June 19 2007 6:36 AM EDT


Zog, you are mistaking the "rights" of the seller for right acts. No one is saying the seller doesn't have the absolute right to be one extraordinary hemorrhoid. It's not good salesmanship, or business practice, but it is certainly his right.

Myth,

---
Im the seller, have a corn I want to get rid of, I ask novice who needs a corn, he tells me two names

I cm those 2 people and a guy I see wants one in a WTB thread quoting them all the corns stats and the price im asking,

One of them replies saying its a deal, so I sell it to them.
*right here*
----

If there was more than one response, and you stopped at "." and went directly to "----"

AdminG Beee June 19 2007 6:43 AM EDT

My daddy brought me up to trust no-one, and that everyone is a bad person until they prove otherwise.

Yes, the example as laid out by Cylo is bad form, but it's to be expected and anything other than "bad form" is a bonus especially when dealing with faceless people on the internet.

I think Cylo knows this and I hope he feels a little bit better for his vent. I don't think he's trying to do anything other than get it off his chest :)

PS. I blame the parents...

Mythology [The Knighthood] June 19 2007 6:51 AM EDT

That was the point, if you agree that I did nothing wrong in the above example then the principal is exactly the same, if cylo replied the next day, week or month it really has no bearing, UNLESS like cylo which is his main point you should wait 24 hours per person you offer something too which I think is ridiculous to hope for / ask for / complain isnt there.

Cylo badly worded this post and reading it your get mislead into the belief that the seller was aware of cylo's wish to buy somehow, if you re-read the post the only dialogue between him and the buyer is,

Do you want this corn?
Yes I do
Sorry youre too late someone replied before you saying yes

QBBast [Hidden Agenda] June 19 2007 6:59 AM EDT

#1.
---
I'm the seller and I have a corn I want to get rid of. I ask Novice if he knows of anyone who needs a corn and he gives me two names.

I CM those 2 people and someone I noted in a WTB thread who wants one. I quote them all the corns stats and the price I am asking.

One of them replies saying its a deal, so I send CMs to the other two parties telling them it's no longer for sale. I then go back to the first responder with the transaction details.
----

#2.
---
I'm the seller and I have a corn I want to get rid of. I ask Novice if he knows of anyone who needs a corn and he gives me two names.

I CM those 2 people and someone I noted in a WTB thread who wants one. I quote them all the corns stats and the price I am asking.

Two of them reply saying its a deal, so I communicate with each of them: giving one the transaction details and telling the other not to bother getting the loan as there was a quicker response.
----

sooka June 19 2007 11:13 AM EDT

I think sometimes people try and dissect things too much sometimes. Cylo was obviously frustrated, vented, and done. To go in and analyze his post like it's some sort of political essay is silly.

The answer to the only question that needed to be answered here is:

Yes Cy, it is you ;)

Just better luck in the future avoiding difficult transactions. I've dealt with some pretty decent people in this game so far and *knock on wood* no bumps like that yet.

TH [money] June 19 2007 12:50 PM EDT

"I think sometimes people try and dissect things too much"
I was about to say this.

QBsutekh137 June 19 2007 1:46 PM EDT

Yeah, dissection is such a horrible thing. I hate asking questions, discussing, sharing ideas, and learning. The world would be a lot better off without those things!

sooka June 19 2007 2:18 PM EDT

^there's a time and place for everything :)

QBsutekh137 June 19 2007 2:26 PM EDT

Sure is, and every time and place is a good time for discussion, assuming everyone does it civilly. As far as I can see, Zog, Myth, and Bast were being very civil and not taking anything too personally. I see no harm in that, not in any time or place.

Cylo June 19 2007 3:54 PM EDT

OK. Let me explain this so everyone can get it right. This is the order of events.

I made a FS/WTB post about purchasing a Corn.

I then recieved a chatmail saying there was a corn at a specific + and how much they wanted. Nothing else. Not a specific thing about a time frame or that they sent the offer to others and for me to hurry. Just this. Oh and this chatmail was sent at 6 am server.

I then replied to chat-mail at 3 pm server time about 8 hours later saying deal. I will get the money in a loan but the loan is a guarantee as soon as they get on.

I then get back on later to find out that 3 hours after my chat-mail that I get one back saying too late. They sold it to someone else.

So your example of you selling one myth and talking to novice and him giving out 2 names is incorrect. He got my name from a specific thread and the other from who knows where. Maybe in chat or something else. This is what I call bad form. He came to me after I put a add in the paper saying I was buying and then sold to the next person that would give the money. That is what I think is in bad form. If you can't understand now then I dont' know how to post this any more clearer, and yes, this was for a vent. I was frustrated. I will not do much business in fs/wtb much because of things like this. I basically wasn't given 8 hours to respond. Not like I'm asking for a week. this 8 hours is basically what a person would spend at work in a day. How could you expect a reply faster. I explained in my original post that I will be dealing with people I know or in auction because I don't want to deal with people in FS/WTB threads that feel that this is the way to sell or buy things. Just me. People don't have to agree, but oh well.

QBRanger June 19 2007 4:10 PM EDT

Unfortunately, this sort of thing happens all the time.

Nothing short of buying an item from auctions can prevent this exact situation from happening.

A PR post signed by both parties is the next best thing to preventing this from happening but is not 100% proof against it. Without such a PR post, nothing illegal has occurred, amoral possibly, but such is the nature of free market enterprise.

However, there are quite a few people who feel your pain, myself included.

Mythology [The Knighthood] June 19 2007 6:21 PM EDT

Thats fair enough Cylo, and pretty much the only thing I said on it in my first post, I think its okay to quote prices to more than one potential buyer at once, and like you say thats where our discussion ended in chat because we disagree at that point (and having to wait 24 hours for replies, but nvm that).

all my other posts were directed at most people talking about it in chat and quick posts on here like Ranger's just above which dont really have anything to do with it, like Flamey's saying make a PR post next time, which inferes there was a dialogue between you and a seller before the deal went through. Wasnt trying to pick your argument apart just trying to illustrate that most people's points on here werent wrong, but just didnt have anything to do with your post

Anyway, hope you get a corn soon mate :P

sooka June 19 2007 7:02 PM EDT

Sute, lol, relax. I was just joking around, and you're analyzing what I wrote as an attack... which is kind of exactly my point to begin with ;p

Cylo, I've dealt with that kind of stuff on another mmorpg I used to play. I'll tell you what, if you turn on the Discovery Channel and watch this crabbing mini series "Deadliest Catch" it might take your mind off of things seeing what these guys go through for their paycheck.
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