BootyGod
June 22 2007 11:04 AM EDT
Well, to be honest, I'm not sure if I agree with that. But... I do know that... I think I did find a problem with the BASIC fundamentals of this game. Seriously.
I was thinking about all the days playing runescape... all the hundreds of hours I have played on Morrowind, or Oblivion, or countless other games. I was thinking about the stories I hear about WoW and even other text based games.
You know where the greatest stories come from? The greatest memories? Victories, and loss.
Think about the other games. You remember dying to that boss, over and over, and the thrill of finally killing it. You remember the hours wasted doing that annoying mini-game, that was impossibly hard. You remember doing that one quest and getting killed by some "unfair" thing. All these things stick with you. They make the game good.
But CB lacks those moments. Losing to an enemy characters costs you maybe 1/2 a second of your life, and 1 BA. Winning is considering humdrum and, more importantly, is considered absolutely necessary. I think we all vaguely remember the time we beat one of the top 10 but... one memory for thousands of hours of your life?
Simply put, there is no DEATH. There is no penalty for loss!(outside of botchecks....), There are no checkpoints. At the same time, is there is no set (YOU WIN, -credits roll-) sense in this game, where you put the controller down for 30 seconds and just stare at the game.
So, obviously, I shall present the closest I can come to solutions.
1) I FINALLY UNDERSTAND:
Tournaments in CB1 were so great because they gave a definite sense of loss and of accomplishment. I think with the reintroduction of them into the game, alot of players will come back and the ones here will stick around. I've never even seen one, but I'm greatly looking forward to them.
I believe tournaments are absolutely essential to bringing back some actual gameplay interest into CB.
2) Quests. Honestly, I'm not sure how to do this. All I know is that players need something to set their mind to, accomplish OR FAIL, and be able to move on to another. I WANT to hear ideas for this, desperately. It's what makes alot of games good.
3) An... adjustment of the fundamental fight system. Tiers, I think, would be nice. They've been suggested before, and should be introduced. You could tie quests in with this, making it so players would have to move from tier, to tier, to tier, only able to fight players with them. Give players a tangible goal at all times, other than simply being the best.
4) I KNOW that may not be liked, but I believe it would help quite a bit. Computer maintained characters. Computer maintained clan characters too. This is needed to fill those gaps in MPR where there are few characters, and, at the same time, give players more goals. Things like (Man, that fifth tier CMC is a nightmare).
With this idea you could have the way to get to new tiers defeating a certain CMC (or multiples) to advance. Then sponsor contests to have players give strategy ideas for them, and then generate equipment for them.
I know, I know, it's a huge amount of work for Jon, and I really can't see how he could distribute it. BUT, I'm not Jon, and maybe he CAN think of a way to do it and still sleep and have a life.
I think that's al I got for now.
I love CB. Always will, but I love is because of the community. The game is great but... besides double tapping Koy ;) I just don't get the same thrills I get from KotOR, or I got from chainsawing in GoW.
Whatever. This is just what I think. Enjoy.
QBRanger
June 22 2007 11:14 AM EDT
1) Tournaments are coming. Jon stated this month which only has 9 more days left. So let's stop the doom and gloom posts until July 1.
2) There are quests in this game. Try to beat Koy. That is your quest. Or try to beat that character who has been farming you forever. Or start a NCB and see how high you can go. Or try to get a group of players together to take the top clan spot. There are as many quests as you can think up.
3) Why make tiers? That would only limit your potential opponents. If you make a varied strat that can beat someone real high up (think Melon named Herold) you should be able to fight that person. CB is a fluid game, and tiers make it segregated.
4) This has been suggested but how to do it? Make a 3M MPR character equipped with outstanding items with a massive TOA and EC/AMF? Or make it so only mages can beat it with a huge MM and the EC overwhelms tanks? Or make it so it has a 4M AMF and little EC so tanks can take it out? It would be near impossible for Jon to make a set of character that are a fair representation of the abilities of other characters. This will only cause more bitching in the forums as some complain that others have it easier. Such is the nature of CB. Right now, look at the characters higher up as you goals.
5) However, it would be nice to get a nice unique type item, not overpowerful but different. I hope that tournaments will let this happen. IE, the winner gets a nice, unique type item. Has to be from the tournaments as this gives everyone a fair shot at getting said item/spell/ability. That is what I really am hoping for.
SaintMichael
June 22 2007 11:22 AM EDT
I tend to agree with Godwolf, but I say we wait for tournaments to reopen before we lower CB's gameplay into the ground.
BootyGod
June 22 2007 11:25 AM EDT
I do agree with that. Maybe I should clarify.
Those are not the solutions I like. They're just some that may make CB more appealing to new players, something they can understand from other games.
Things like changing the fundamental game play should not be done lightly, obviously (DUH).
personally i have played many games that have all of those things. i tend to lose interest in them after less than a year. i am currently playing lotro and having a good time. i don't expect to still be playing it a year from now though.
cb on the other hand i have played for almost 4.5 years now! in that time i have gone through swg, wow, coh, eve online, ddo, daoc, minions of mirth, and anarchy online (i may have missed a few and the order is out of whack). i believe that what has saved cb from the fate of these other games is that the other games do have all that stuff to do which is very engaging. i would then spend increasing amounts of time in my current mmorpg heaven. burnout would soon be lurking around the corner as i spent more time playing the game.
i truly believe that the reason cb has kept my attention is the fact that you can only spend so much time with it each day. with the recent ba changes that time is even less. psychologically we are left wanting more which equates into, at least for me, coming back daily if at all possible. give it all to me at once in a big all-you-can-eat buffet style game and i would most likely gorge myself and leave with a feeling that i would never eat again rather than wanting more.
QBJohnnywas
June 22 2007 11:33 AM EDT
For me CB is still engaging because it doesn't have an end. I could stay with this character for as long as I can be bothered to down click (or until Jon implements CB3....).
I'm not a gamer much anymore - my last console was the playstation - but the games I loved were either the really really big games that I would never finish or the quick pick em up put em down games that finished quickly but could be replayed. In a sense that feeling of being in the middle of something was what gripped me.
BootyGod
June 22 2007 11:35 AM EDT
Hmm.... you all -do- know you could keep the arena style feel of the game AND have quests... right?
CB in decline? That may be just your opinion GW. Some of the things you bring up may make the game better (tourneys) but a few of your ideas IMO really won't help the game any at all.
I've played a few games with bot characters so beat and it gets boring fast. And as it has already been stated how, with the diversity of characters that cb has, would you make a "fair" bot. Not only that but i like the "my idea" vs "your idea" for characters fighting each other.
Also the tiers you talk about are kinda in place already by score, but you can fight outside of your tier/score. (down gives crap rewards, up gives better rewards)
Oh and on a side note i believe when a NUB first starts they get a goal character to beat.
Miandrital
June 22 2007 11:42 AM EDT
GW, trust me, when tournies come back you will have something to keep you occupied every week. And if you win, you will have a great story to tell.
I still remember the cb1 tournies where Trouser Python destroyed everybody nearly every week. But there was one tourney where me and some other guy teamed together and we pushed pass TP, with him coming first, me second and TP third.
Sacredpeanut
June 23 2007 12:38 AM EDT
"5) However, it would be nice to get a nice unique type item, not overpowerful but different. I hope that tournaments will let this happen. IE, the winner gets a nice, unique type item. Has to be from the tournaments as this gives everyone a fair shot at getting said item/spell/ability. That is what I really am hoping for. "
I like this idea Ranger, I'd like to see winners of Tourneys getting unique items or winners getting "Tourney points" e.g. 3 pts for 1st 2 for 2nd and 1 for 3rd. There would be a tourney store where one could redeem points for unique items not available in stores, obviously point costs would be restrictive enough so as not to flood the game with these items. I'd also have a unique item slot for them so they don't compete with ordinary items.
stoner14
June 23 2007 1:10 AM EDT
tournaments will keep me playing cb again... but i wish more people would come play that will stay
/me misses the old days when there was always 50+ people in 'carnage')
Kong Ming
June 23 2007 1:12 AM EDT
Never participated in a tourney before. Really looking forward to one now :)
skurj
June 23 2007 2:38 AM EDT
hmmm, i remember teaming up with someone in a cb1 tourney and taking out the 1st prize (beefed up Adam I reckon). Had to fight the sleep towards the end though.
skurj
June 23 2007 2:46 AM EDT
Tournaments will bring so much to CB2, especially as there are many that have participated in Tournaments in CB1 and keen to prove their worth in the new incarnation as well as a lot of CB2'ers that haven't experienced Tournaments but are keen too.
I'm really looking forward to it as, for me, Tournaments where the most memorable and challenging aspect of CB1, well, along with camping a rare. :)
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