General Tournament Rules (in General)


Admin{CB1}Slayer333 July 4 2007 2:44 PM EDT

These rules will apply to all Tournaments unless contradicted by a specific tournaments rules.

1) Abuse of the auctions system will result in disqualification and a reset of your tournament character, and may result in a fine for any user assisting in the abuse.

For example, you may not have someone put an item in auctions for a very low price (below store-sale price for tattoos, below market value for other items).

You may not have someone bid on a worthless item for you in order to "transfer" money to your tournament character.

You may not "transfer" money off of your tournament character by bidding far over market value on an item, and having the seller transfer the money back to you.

If you are participating in a tournament, you may not use your main character to outbid another tournament character in order to "steal" the item from them. This will be dealt with on a case-by-case basis, and all possible infractions should be CMed to me.

2) Items held by tournament characters may not be named.

3) Decay will not be allowed in most tournaments, unless otherwise stated, assume that decay may _not_ be trained.

4) Upgraded ammo may not be used in tournaments, if you suspect someone of breaking this rule chatmail me. Only base ammo may be used.

5) You may not retire your character early, the only exception is on the first day of the tourney.

6) You may not artificially inflate any targets score by attacking and losing intentionally to them with another of your characters.

7) If you find someone who is breaking the rules, chatmail me.

Use this thread to suggest new rules, remind me of any I've forgotten, or ask for clarification on any rule. I'll update this post from time to time with any new rules added on. : )

AdminQBnovice [Cult of the Valaraukar] July 4 2007 3:03 PM EDT

Thanks for the clarification, so no word on the BIN now issue?

Admin{CB1}Slayer333 July 4 2007 3:07 PM EDT

If Bart is correct in saying that there is a cooldown time for T-chars to purchase items from auctions as well as stores, then I think the BIN issue is pretty much minimized.

Gigan July 4 2007 5:34 PM EDT

Good job, Slayer. Well done.

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] July 4 2007 6:15 PM EDT

"If you are participating in a tournament, you may not bid on an item in auctions with your main character when that item has already been bid on by any other tournament characters."

I've a question with this. Are we enforcing character naming for tournaments? Otherwise, this is gonna be an extremely hard rule not to break unintentionally...

Plus that now means I have to check the bidding history of every auction I want to place a bid on, just in case.

Admin{CB1}Slayer333 July 4 2007 6:20 PM EDT

GL - if a tournament character bids on an item it will say "Tournament X" next to their name, such as in this auction: Click me

stoner14 July 4 2007 6:22 PM EDT

"If you are participating in a tournament, you may not bid on an item in auctions with your main character when that item has already been bid on by any other tournament characters. " what if it's a CoI that you really need for your main and a tourney char bids like 50k on it?

AdminQBnovice [Cult of the Valaraukar] July 4 2007 6:28 PM EDT

then you'll be bummed...

QBRanger July 4 2007 6:31 PM EDT

Stoner, IMO that is a very poor rule that should ONLY apply to non rares.

Rares should be fair game to all.

Admin{CB1}Slayer333 July 4 2007 6:31 PM EDT

if you _really_ needed it, then I suppose the only way to get it would be to retire your T-Char (thus disqualifying it) and then you would be free to buy it for your main character, unfortunately I'm not having much luck thinking of an alternative way to prevent this kind of abuse from happening, but if anyone can think of a way, this is the place to post it.

AdminQBnovice [Cult of the Valaraukar] July 4 2007 6:34 PM EDT

maybe the rule needs some firming up, but it's not a poor rule...

It's needed to keep people from using outside money to alter tourney outcome...*cough*

QBRanger July 4 2007 6:35 PM EDT

Then make it rares are available to all, non rares only apply to this rule.
include Katana/Exec as well as compounds in the non rares since no real character uses them.

stoner14 July 4 2007 6:43 PM EDT

but what about tattoo's/lesser tattoos and what if the tourney char bids market price and someone else outbids them to not let them get it... I agree with slayer on this, it is a very hard rule to make work any other way... i bet he'll be thinking about it for awhile.

AdminNightStrike July 4 2007 11:16 PM EDT

I think its a poor rule simply because it imposes restrictions on people playing fairly, and yet someone wanting to play unfairly can just ask a non-tournament-playing friend to buy out the item in question.


Honestly, wouldn't the best solution to all of this to be just to have a separate auction house / store for tournament characters?

Lumpy Koala July 5 2007 2:52 AM EDT

What about selling item to store and buy it back by main char?

bartjan July 5 2007 3:15 AM EDT

That would only work for low level items. "Rares" can only be auctioned by the tourney char.

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] July 5 2007 3:39 AM EDT

"GL - if a tournament character bids on an item it will say "Tournament X" next to their name, such as in this auction: Click me"

:)

Nice! Learn something new every day. ;)

Thinking about this more, it's a good way to get rid of the competition in a tourny. Watch the AH for any bids on items by your rivals, then just make a bid and it gives them the choice ofither losing out on the item they want for thier main, or dropping out of the tourny giving you a better run.

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] July 5 2007 3:40 AM EDT

Edit: Also, if it doesn't matter if the torunie charcaters AH bid is current (could easily be got round if it is), then as a new tourny charcater just bid the minimum on every auction you can afford. You'll probably not win the item anyway, but it locks it out from other tourny players mains.

AdminNightStrike July 5 2007 3:53 AM EDT

Actually, GL, you have made me think of an interesting situation:

A player with a tourney character T1 bids on an item with his main character, M1. Another tourney character, T2, outbids M1. M1 is now no longer able to outbid T2, and he can't use T1 to bid on the item to then give to M1 (obviously).

So a tourney character can effectively lock out a non-tourney character from bidding on an item, even if he already bid. Sounds way too fishy.

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] July 5 2007 3:59 AM EDT

Yeah, in effect, unless items start extremely high priced (rules out all the auctioneer placed ones) the AH becomes Tourny only.

AdminNightStrike July 5 2007 4:02 AM EDT

Or, rather, if you're in a tourney, you can't get much of anything using your main character. If you're not in a tourny at all, then nothing changes.

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] July 5 2007 4:06 AM EDT

But Torunies have thier own BA and shouldn't impact your playing of your main. ;)

So it's either cut out this exciting new feature (especially if your main is an ex shot based SoD user for example), or accept that the AH probably won't be open to you any more.

Synge [Memento Mori] July 5 2007 6:39 PM EDT

What is the purpose of that particular restriction anyway? What is the exploit?

stoner14 July 5 2007 7:43 PM EDT

synge- it is to keep someone from keeping a tourney char from getting something vital to their strat, or 'bumping' the price so the tourney char will pay excess of market value and have less cash to spend on other things. It is a cheap strategy and im sure if someone used it you would know right away, so maybe take this on a case to case basis?

Gigan July 5 2007 7:52 PM EDT

GL, Why on earth would someone start a tourny char just to block your main char from getting gear they might need? That seems pretty far fetched. I've been involved in this community for a long time and as a whole the players are just not that devious. It just seems like too much effort to try and stop one from getting something that they'll be able to get through forums or in a later auction anyway.

Also, what tourny player has the immediate cash to bid on the high ticket items you'd want? It'd be different if there were one of each item in existence, but there is not. If you miss out on a pair of DBs, by example, today, chances are there'll be another pair right around the corner.

This rule is intended, I assume, to prevent the reverse abuse. The tourny player is the weaker and can not compete with a main char's money. It would be and has been very easy for someone to block a tourn opponent in this way. Thus the rule.

Are you really looking to buy lesser tattoos and composite bows for your main? Rares aren't usually even started at prices low enough for a tourn player to bid on anyway.

stoner14 July 5 2007 7:59 PM EDT

gigan-auctioneer starts 'his' auctions extremely low

Synge [Memento Mori] July 5 2007 8:16 PM EDT

Stoner, from what I have seen so far, tourney characters pay much more than market value for the items that they get. That reason doesn't seem like a good justification for the rule, since it comes with a substantial cost associated with it, namely buying stuff at more than market price. I mean, nothing stops someone else from offering the exact same item in a different auction. There's already a luck of the draw in the auctions with tourney characters. That does not seem like a sufficient reason for yanking the chain of main characters who have associated tourney characters.

stoner14 July 5 2007 8:29 PM EDT

Synge- So you are saying that you would not feel jipped if you were in a tourney in second place by a hair and you needed an exbow lets say, to be able to beat the person in first and thus win the tournament. You start bidding on the exbow and the person in first realizes this and bids more money with his main char than you have on your tourney char for the exbow. You in turn lose the tourney because you were not able to obtain the exbow. (Yes, i know it is an extreme but if left unchecked it could end up like this.)

Synge [Memento Mori] July 5 2007 8:39 PM EDT

Actually, yeah, that's what I'm saying. If your tourney strat hinges on getting an exbow at exactly the right time, then you have made a very risky strat choice, and should not be surprised when that risk plays out. Certainly the cost of preventing such tomfoolery is too high for such a low marginal return.

stoner14 July 5 2007 8:43 PM EDT

But it's the fact that the person would be using an out-of-tourney source to win the tourney that is why it is banned. The tourney's are supposed to be equal to everyone no matter how much money/mpr/nw they have on their mains. I'm not all for this rule, but i'm voicing my opinion why there has to be a little bit of discretion against the wealthy using their wealth to win tournaments and get wealthier.

Gigan July 5 2007 10:02 PM EDT

Stoner- Yes, as I hit submit I remembered that. The underlying point still remains the same.

You are making the argument very eloquently. Thank you for that.

smallpau1 - Go Blues [Lower My Fees] July 5 2007 10:14 PM EDT

rares should not be included in that auction thing about other T-chars bidding on it, because then the T-char would get the rare for 50k because all others have <50k on their tourney char and cant bid on the item with their main because of this rule. At least thats how i see it. A few people already brought this up i see.

Synge [Memento Mori] July 5 2007 11:02 PM EDT

I agree that it is an unfair practice. What I object to is the cost of enforcing it, especially when there seems to be a better way. Unless I am misunderstanding your argument, it sounds like the only abuses that this rule prevents are in some pretty rare and visible cases. These are exactly the kind of cases that can be easily policed on a case-by-case basis, without the need for a blanket rule that can be somewhat disruptive to non-tournament characters.

Lumpy Koala July 5 2007 11:20 PM EDT

Let's just ban auction altogether. If you want tattoo, wish for your own luck to camp at the stores. *pffft* That would surely put all tourney on a common fair game.

And no, it's not unfair to tanks at all, at low level, tanks can use virtually any weapon and still best any mages in terms of damages. Especially you can also use AMF that's so useful at low levels. And if you think this deprive you of any strat "variety" , think again, everyone else is on the same boat, so deal with it creatively.

Admin{CB1}Slayer333 July 6 2007 12:29 AM EDT

Hmm - I think I agree with Synge on this, it is too hard to create a blanket rule to cover the potential problem, so, it is still against the tournament rules to "steal" an item away from a tournament character by using a main character, but things like this will have to be reported to me via CM, and dealt with individually.

stoner14 July 6 2007 6:37 AM EDT

synge, that's exactly the point i was trying to make. But, i wasn't trying to argue with you, just show you the reasoning behind the rule. And I think slayer is making a wise decision, good show. =D i love you all.

AdminG Beee July 6 2007 8:31 AM EDT

Am I remembering correctly?
On CB1 tourney winners were excluded from the next tourney.

Not suggesting we do it here, but just trying to recall if that was how it used to be...

Flamey July 6 2007 8:33 AM EDT

It was like that, G. Slayer said in chat that he'll see how it pans out, if it turns out to be the same person winning over and over, he'll most probably impose that.

Admin{CB1}Slayer333 July 6 2007 8:34 AM EDT

It was like that on Cb1, if it ends up being a small group of players who dominate Cb2 tournaments then I'll put that in place here as well

lostling July 6 2007 9:06 AM EDT

how about they can participate but no winning of prizes :)

Phrede July 6 2007 9:08 AM EDT

Perhaps exclude the - lets say - top 30 players - then it gives us poor suckers a chance :)

QBJohnnywas July 6 2007 9:09 AM EDT

lol

Gandalf July 6 2007 10:36 AM EDT

Yeah, great idea Freed :)

QBOddBird July 6 2007 11:34 AM EDT

Better yet, drop it down to about 2k BA for the week and I'll have a chance *chortles* I'm too busy/lazy to run 2 whole BA sets!

Admin{CB1}Slayer333 July 6 2007 11:26 PM EDT

Added/updated main post with new rule on upgraded ammo.

Kong Ming July 7 2007 10:48 AM EDT

Can I check whether we can sell stuff to store and our team mate buys it from the store in T2?

Kong Ming July 7 2007 10:51 AM EDT

Also, since T2 is a team of 2, can we allow transfer of items between the teammates? Not sure whether this is possible though ;)

Admin{CB1}Slayer333 July 7 2007 11:28 AM EDT

You may attempt to transfer items to your team mates via store/auction, however it is risky. I cannot control whether T-chars can transfer items or not.

I think you mean T3 as well :p

Kong Ming July 7 2007 11:33 AM EDT

Yes, I mean T3 [wow, its fast when you are having fun ;)] Since T3 is a team effort, why don't we try to allow transfers between teammates to make it more fun? :)
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