Defensive Ammo Broken (in General)

QBsutekh137 August 12 2007 1:45 AM EDT

I was playing around fighting Freed's character tonight, and decided to take down his defensive ammo. He had 203 arrows when I first looked, and I kept fighting him (losing -- so I assume the arrows are super huge).

I kept fighting him, and got his arrows down to 14. Fought him three more times, him using anywhere between 7 and 11 arrows per fight. I waited for my refresh to refresh, and refreshed his Inspect stats. He still has 14 arrows.

Apparently whatever stops named ammo from exhausting also let's it stay equipped when being used defensively, and letting it become INexhaustible.

Seems a bit fishy... If someone wants to have huge arrows, I should be allowed to take them down till they are gone.

Mikel August 12 2007 2:03 AM EDT

weird indeed, I would've thought it would drop him down to 1, just like it does if you are attacking and run yourself out. And you only get to fire 1 arrow in that fight.

Lumpy Koala August 12 2007 7:24 AM EDT

well that's one way of using named ammo actually :) They are sanctioned to have minimum of 4 if I am not mistaken. But it's odd that his stay at 14 all the time hehe

Flamey August 12 2007 8:18 AM EDT

NSK the number, I don't think is the worrying thing. The worrying thing is that they're still being shot and the number is not going down.

Lumpy Koala August 12 2007 9:33 AM EDT

Yet another nonsensical idea coming up !!!

If updating any code to accept 0 amount of ammo would be troublesome for Jon, can Jon change the code to "auto unequip" the named ammo if by any chance after a ranged round it should've been a 0 ?

That way you can still see crazy ammo like below :) just that it will be good for defending only 1~2 rounds

5 D.R.P.1s [8x100] (+150) worth $58,587 owned by Ancient Anubis (Anubis Death Vault)
2 D.R.P.2s [8x100] (+150) worth $23,434 owned by Ancient Anubis (Anubis Death Vault)

Ancient Anubis August 12 2007 9:59 AM EDT

hey those are my arrows :)

QBRanger August 12 2007 10:03 AM EDT

I always thought that can reduce defensive arrows to the point where there is enough for 1 fight. That you cannot reduce them any further.

At least that was my experience doing the same thing you tried in cb1.

I hope someone can clarify this.

QBOddBird August 12 2007 10:43 AM EDT

Guys, you are missing the point!

It isn't the fact that he reduced them down to a certain number.

It was the fact that after he reduced them to a point and the number stopped dropping, he kept firing them and they apparently became inexhaustible arrows - quite a bug!

/me drops back out of the thread and allows every to get back on track.

QBRanger August 12 2007 10:51 AM EDT


That is the way it worked in CB1. I full well know that for defense they are IA type arrows when you get them down to such a level, so it seems.

Yes, i disagree with it, but that is how it has been.

QBsutekh137 August 12 2007 11:37 AM EDT

Ah, OK. If it has always been that way, then it is simply retarded and always neds to be fixed. Uber defensive ammo is already brain-dead enough (mages have no counterpart) -- not being able to exhaust it is even brain-deader. *smile*

Yukk August 12 2007 3:58 PM EDT

Sut, you're right. Paying $10000 per shot for defensive ammo is one thing, but paying $100k for inexhaustable $10k ammo is definitely the braindeadest.

stoner14 August 12 2007 4:03 PM EDT

*bring back the IA's* j/k

QBOddBird August 12 2007 4:04 PM EDT


Just because something has been that way for a long time does not mean it doesn't need fixing. Draws had always been possible to exploit, but it wasn't until I started doing that drawing-up thing in an econ clan that Jon nerfed them down to 50% rewards.

And this DEFINITELY is a bug, regardless of how long it's been around.

Nerevas August 12 2007 4:12 PM EDT



x100+100 stack of 10 named explosive shots.

Any questions? Ya.. this needs to be fixed.

QBsutekh137 August 12 2007 4:22 PM EDT

I don't think Ranger is saying not to fix it -- he said he agrees it is a bad thing... We have concensus! Now we just need Jonathan's attention! *smile*

QBRanger August 12 2007 7:13 PM EDT

It certainly is a bad thing. If you upgrade ammo so much, be prepared to lose it if your not careful.

I tried to do just that in CB1 and got quite upset when i could not get rid of it all.

Flamey August 13 2007 4:08 AM EDT

I thought it had something to do with whether the upgraded ammo made you win or not, if you lost then it wouldn't waste any, and there was some condition, I've forgotten, but something happens when you solely on the defensive ammo, without it you would have lost, but I have forgotten it. :\

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] August 13 2007 8:53 AM EDT

This is news to me.. The way I understood it, Named ammo went down to a single arrow/bolt. Not enough for a full fight.

It should not be possible to keep named ammo unexhistautable at more than a solitary peice.

Talion August 13 2007 9:14 AM EDT

If it was up to me, ammo would auto merge when a character acquires it. This would get rid of the offensive/defensive ammo issues that keep popping up.

A new confirm option would also have to be put into place when users transfer stuff to others or win auctions. Else there would be many obvious issues.

Of course, the same choice of downgrade or upgrade would be presented when new ammo is acquired.

QBJohnnywas August 13 2007 9:20 AM EDT

auto merge!! auto merge!!!!

QBsutekh137 August 13 2007 10:41 AM EDT

I think defensive ammo is fine, as long as it runs out so it stops getting used. That's my only issue here. Then again, I am way out of touch with tank combat... Now that seekers are gone, are defensive ammo packs really that big of an issue? I guess huge explosive shot is still definitely an issue, as well as uberized standard arrows...

This bug seems easy to fix -- whatever check is used to not let the arrow count decrease at the end of a battle needs to be moved to the front in some fashion and just make sure the arrows don't fire in the first place... Or, if at the end of the battle PreBattleAmmo = PostBattleAmmo for a ammo bundle, unequip the bundle.

QBRanger August 13 2007 10:44 AM EDT

Well, defensive ammo with the elb/bg is not really an issue. However the mageseeker bow does not do uber damage so upgraded ammo especially the + may certainly be an issue.

I do agree 100% that ammo should be used, up. In both defensive wins and losses. That is the price one pays. If you do not like it, put 15k ammo on and leave it there. Nobody is going to waste 1000 BA to blow your normal ammo and if they do, you got a lot of free xp.

QBsutekh137 August 13 2007 10:57 AM EDT

Yes, with one caveat -- only defensive battles where the defender wins and it is an "appreciable" win (which I know is what you meant, and what is already in place except for the bug we are discussing). Defensive ammo is never used if the defender is being attacked by a much smaller character resulting in a defending win with virtually no rewards. That was not the case with Freed. *smile* I knew full well I was giving him a lot of nice experience while leeching his arrows away.

QBRanger August 13 2007 11:06 AM EDT

Well yes,

100% agreement there.

It is broken, at least my understanding of it.
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