Defensive Ammo Broken (in General)
August 12 2007 1:45 AM EDT
I was playing around fighting Freed's character tonight, and decided to take down his defensive ammo. He had 203 arrows when I first looked, and I kept fighting him (losing -- so I assume the arrows are super huge).
I kept fighting him, and got his arrows down to 14. Fought him three more times, him using anywhere between 7 and 11 arrows per fight. I waited for my refresh to refresh, and refreshed his Inspect stats. He still has 14 arrows.
Apparently whatever stops named ammo from exhausting also let's it stay equipped when being used defensively, and letting it become INexhaustible.
Seems a bit fishy... If someone wants to have huge arrows, I should be allowed to take them down till they are gone.
August 12 2007 2:03 AM EDT
weird indeed, I would've thought it would drop him down to 1, just like it does if you are attacking and run yourself out. And you only get to fire 1 arrow in that fight.
August 12 2007 7:24 AM EDT
well that's one way of using named ammo actually :) They are sanctioned to have minimum of 4 if I am not mistaken. But it's odd that his stay at 14 all the time hehe
August 12 2007 8:18 AM EDT
NSK the number, I don't think is the worrying thing. The worrying thing is that they're still being shot and the number is not going down.
August 12 2007 9:33 AM EDT
Yet another nonsensical idea coming up !!!
If updating any code to accept 0 amount of ammo would be troublesome for Jon, can Jon change the code to "auto unequip" the named ammo if by any chance after a ranged round it should've been a 0 ?
That way you can still see crazy ammo like below :) just that it will be good for defending only 1~2 rounds
5 D.R.P.1s [8x100] (+150) worth $58,587 owned by Ancient Anubis (Anubis Death Vault)
2 D.R.P.2s [8x100] (+150) worth $23,434 owned by Ancient Anubis (Anubis Death Vault)
hey those are my arrows :)
August 12 2007 10:03 AM EDT
I always thought that can reduce defensive arrows to the point where there is enough for 1 fight. That you cannot reduce them any further.
At least that was my experience doing the same thing you tried in cb1.
I hope someone can clarify this.
August 12 2007 10:43 AM EDT
Guys, you are missing the point!
It isn't the fact that he reduced them down to a certain number.
It was the fact that after he reduced them to a point and the number stopped dropping, he kept firing them and they apparently became inexhaustible arrows - quite a bug!
/me drops back out of the thread and allows every to get back on track.
August 12 2007 10:51 AM EDT
That is the way it worked in CB1. I full well know that for defense they are IA type arrows when you get them down to such a level, so it seems.
Yes, i disagree with it, but that is how it has been.
August 12 2007 11:37 AM EDT
Ah, OK. If it has always been that way, then it is simply retarded and always neds to be fixed. Uber defensive ammo is already brain-dead enough (mages have no counterpart) -- not being able to exhaust it is even brain-deader. *smile*
August 12 2007 3:58 PM EDT
Sut, you're right. Paying $10000 per shot for defensive ammo is one thing, but paying $100k for inexhaustable $10k ammo is definitely the braindeadest.
August 12 2007 4:03 PM EDT
*bring back the IA's* j/k
August 12 2007 4:04 PM EDT
Just because something has been that way for a long time does not mean it doesn't need fixing. Draws had always been possible to exploit, but it wasn't until I started doing that drawing-up thing in an econ clan that Jon nerfed them down to 50% rewards.
And this DEFINITELY is a bug, regardless of how long it's been around.
August 12 2007 4:12 PM EDT
x100+100 stack of 10 named explosive shots.
Any questions? Ya.. this needs to be fixed.
August 12 2007 4:22 PM EDT
I don't think Ranger is saying not to fix it -- he said he agrees it is a bad thing... We have concensus! Now we just need Jonathan's attention! *smile*
August 12 2007 7:13 PM EDT
It certainly is a bad thing. If you upgrade ammo so much, be prepared to lose it if your not careful.
I tried to do just that in CB1 and got quite upset when i could not get rid of it all.
August 13 2007 4:08 AM EDT
I thought it had something to do with whether the upgraded ammo made you win or not, if you lost then it wouldn't waste any, and there was some condition, I've forgotten, but something happens when you solely on the defensive ammo, without it you would have lost, but I have forgotten it. :\
This is news to me.. The way I understood it, Named ammo went down to a single arrow/bolt. Not enough for a full fight.
It should not be possible to keep named ammo unexhistautable at more than a solitary peice.
August 13 2007 9:14 AM EDT
If it was up to me, ammo would auto merge when a character acquires it. This would get rid of the offensive/defensive ammo issues that keep popping up.
A new confirm option would also have to be put into place when users transfer stuff to others or win auctions. Else there would be many obvious issues.
Of course, the same choice of downgrade or upgrade would be presented when new ammo is acquired.
August 13 2007 9:20 AM EDT
auto merge!! auto merge!!!!
August 13 2007 10:41 AM EDT
I think defensive ammo is fine, as long as it runs out so it stops getting used. That's my only issue here. Then again, I am way out of touch with tank combat... Now that seekers are gone, are defensive ammo packs really that big of an issue? I guess huge explosive shot is still definitely an issue, as well as uberized standard arrows...
This bug seems easy to fix -- whatever check is used to not let the arrow count decrease at the end of a battle needs to be moved to the front in some fashion and just make sure the arrows don't fire in the first place... Or, if at the end of the battle PreBattleAmmo = PostBattleAmmo for a ammo bundle, unequip the bundle.
August 13 2007 10:44 AM EDT
Well, defensive ammo with the elb/bg is not really an issue. However the mageseeker bow does not do uber damage so upgraded ammo especially the + may certainly be an issue.
I do agree 100% that ammo should be used, up. In both defensive wins and losses. That is the price one pays. If you do not like it, put 15k ammo on and leave it there. Nobody is going to waste 1000 BA to blow your normal ammo and if they do, you got a lot of free xp.
August 13 2007 10:57 AM EDT
Yes, with one caveat -- only defensive battles where the defender wins and it is an "appreciable" win (which I know is what you meant, and what is already in place except for the bug we are discussing). Defensive ammo is never used if the defender is being attacked by a much smaller character resulting in a defending win with virtually no rewards. That was not the case with Freed. *smile* I knew full well I was giving him a lot of nice experience while leeching his arrows away.
August 13 2007 11:06 AM EDT
100% agreement there.
It is broken, at least my understanding of it.
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