Did the mageseeker...... (in General)

Brakke Bres [Ow man] August 28 2007 1:30 PM EDT

.......ruined every mage strats?

Ive seen so many new people using the mageseeker to beat those high mage teams. Use it in conjunction with archery and you have a winner.
This bow with constant mage seeking is ruining, as far as i see it, any mage strat out there.

Even if you go full evasion on your mage, which you don't want because of exp dilution, the ToA archer with a mageseeker will hit you.

48Zach August 28 2007 1:32 PM EDT

I've been going fine against ToA archers/ToA tanks with my mage strat.

Miandrital August 28 2007 1:36 PM EDT

The mageseeker is not nearly as powerful as you think. Most mages these days train a lot of evasion. The mageseeker then targets those mages when their evasion has the largest multipliers. Unless you are facing a ToA mageseeker (rare) or a huge PTH mageseeker (rare) mages do fine.

QBJohnnywas August 28 2007 1:38 PM EDT

People wanted rid of the seeker arrows; but it was always fairly obvious that the mageseeker was a worse option for mages.

Bring back seekers.........;)

QBOddBird August 28 2007 1:47 PM EDT

I didn't have a problem with mageseekers on my team.

But Henk, it is better than everyone having a Mageseeker, no? That was the case with seekers, where ANYONE could just equip them defensively and ruin the mages.

But then, it's been a month since I was running my CoC/EC team, so maybe things have changed and mageseekers are a problem. *shrugs* I wouldn't know.

Spawn August 28 2007 2:41 PM EDT

Mageseekers are not a problem for me if my EC is takes out all their ST.....

They can seek...but cannot destroy!!

"Seeking Archer hit Mr. Charming with Death Seeker [497]"

what is a mageseeker if it hits like that?

therefore there are strats to protect you from them, they are just a lil annoying if they are bigger than you is all ;)

QBRanger August 28 2007 3:44 PM EDT

If you look at the relatively low NW the current mageseekers out there are, no, not yet.

However, if you give it time and let people forge/upgrade them, they may cause mages without evasion a problem. Especially if used on TOA tank.

But the damage with the mageseeker bow is far less then that of an elb, about 1/3 to 1/2 less damage for about the same x (as my experience with them has shown).

But, alas, that is a whole separate discussion that already occurred.

Gandalf August 28 2007 5:05 PM EDT

Alot of people whine about archery being over powered etc etc....

but how can u hit evasion? With out putting 10mil into the + of a weapon and a huge ToA.

However yes its hard for a none evasion mage to cope i guess.

BootyGod August 28 2007 5:31 PM EDT

I still think it would be nice to give mages a way to control where their damage goes. Amulet of David: Equipped minions targets enemy minion with highest ST. Negative 2% to DD and DX? That gives balance. And of course, you could use it with CoC and FB, reducing splash but increasing damage to highest ST minion.

Then we can see how it fares the other way. Of course, it is pretty much a mage only item, like CoI or AG. But I still think the tanks got the mages beat as for items. Oh, and please, do not start quoting the age old saying that mages work with less NW. Show me a high standing any kind of team with low NW.

Mages need items. And this one seems rather sweet.

Oh, and feel free to make it a chest piece. Tunic of blah blah. That would be very nice.

Lumpy Koala August 28 2007 8:02 PM EDT

Myself has been using mageseeker quite early... till now, the only think I can say about them is they are good tool, but severely broken by the need to use archery and evasion is even more broken.

I am thinking of selling it already... I can only hit at most double against NO evasion , NO EC and NO dex trained mage, with +100, that's sad.

BootyGod August 28 2007 8:11 PM EDT

However, you only have slightly over 300k DX, and you also lack any sort of ranged boosting item. Most teams using Mageseekers use the items associated with them. Mainly, belegs and archery. An item can be overpowered sometimes, but not all the time.

I'm not saying the mageseeker is overpowered. It's definitely better than seekers. I will stop on that note.

Nerevas August 28 2007 8:32 PM EDT

mage + wall armor + toe = laugh at mageseeker! Hahahahaha!

Talion August 28 2007 8:52 PM EDT

The eternal debate...

Mages wining about ToA Archers.

Archers wining about Evasion Mages.

I think CBII would not be the same without the constant war between them.

Nerevas August 28 2007 9:02 PM EDT

Be thankful the mageseeker came into existence. Before, archers had full accuracy, hit for ultra mega insane damage with ELB, and targetted mages (because of seekers). Now, they have less accuracy, hit for a significant amount less damage, and have to choose to always target mages or not with their weapon choice rather than off/on at their disgression.

Fanta [Fanta's Forge] August 28 2007 10:19 PM EDT

Mage familiars are completely screwed over by MSB's without training EC... then GA pwns them without DM...

muon [The Winds Of Fate] August 29 2007 3:45 AM EDT

No, listen to Nerevas. Seekers were a real pain. The mageseeker was good for us mage teams.

However, I do believe that familiars (incl. the HF) should receive some small evasion. Maybe it would overpower them; I'm not sure. At the moment, I think ToE and ToA are considered the best tattoos in terms of utility to characters (if usage is anything to go by, at least). A bit of evasion would make an extra minion a competitive choice for most characters, I think.

Anyway, DaaC, a ToA archer with a mageseeker is at a pretty huge disadvantage when facing other tank teams who are equipped with elbows. And, Freed did some testing and decided that the elbow was the way to go even at ultra high NW (if I remember a conversation in chat correctly).


QBBast [Hidden Agenda] August 29 2007 3:55 AM EDT

Mostly seekers were a real pain here, in the forums, and that has resolved itself nicely. Unless this thread also repeats itself three times a week.

QBJohnnywas August 29 2007 4:48 AM EDT

Ah, forum deja vu.....you know you've been here too long when that starts to happen....

Brakke Bres [Ow man] August 29 2007 9:52 AM EDT

well evasion takes a lot out of a mage, don't forget that there is no tat that boosts DD or evasion skill.

So the exp dilution takes exp away from the DD, and because DD is the only way that a mage can do damage the damage will be far less then any tank out there.

Tanks on the other hand only need to train HP and the ToA takes care of the rest. Maybe a skill at 1/5 of the str. So training 100 evasion or 10mil exp into that skill and complaining you cant hit it in ranged.

QBRanger August 29 2007 11:07 AM EDT

But again, the TOA is the only tattoo you have to use on your main damage dealer (unless you are 1 minion).

With that comes a lot of negatives including the inability to wear body armor/cloak and use a Mage Shield. Which is a fair trade off.

BootyGod August 29 2007 12:50 PM EDT

No! YOU are overpowered!

Mageseeker is better than seeker. Excuse me while I try not to complain too much lol. Jon seems like the kind of guy who might just bring back seekers and combine them with slayers -_- and wouldn't that be fine?

Sting strikes X for 453458345734-error-

Fun, neh?

QBOddBird August 29 2007 1:00 PM EDT

"With that comes a lot of negatives including the inability to wear body armor/cloak and use a Mage Shield. Which is a fair trade off."

Mages can't wear a Mage Shield to begin with. That just evens out the playing field, to me. They already are unable to use Power Shields, since those are tank only items.

muon [The Winds Of Fate] August 29 2007 6:12 PM EDT

Ranger: fair comment, but what about folks like myself and novice for whom their damage dealer _is_ the tattoo?

In that case, (assuming a mage familiar like the SF or IF), not only do you suffer from no evasion, mageseeker strikes etc, but you also don't get to equip body armour or anything.

"If it's so bad, use something else!" - eh, it isn't bad, I'm not complaining about these things, I'm merely pointing out that the ToA is _not_ the only tattoo that gets equipped on the main damage dealer (in effect).


QBRanger August 29 2007 8:36 PM EDT

Well I have no idea what Jon thinks, but I would hope he did not want the tattoo to be the only damage dealer in a party.

But one full well knows that if the tattoo is the only damage dealer, there are some negatives associated with it.

However, if you look at one of my past posts, I suggested that tattoos get evasion, 10-20% of their level base. But not many people agreed.

QBRanger August 29 2007 8:39 PM EDT

And to OB,

Yes mages cannot wear a MgS, but they can use all types of armor if they do not use/wear the tattoo.

Which gives a lot of leeway in what you equip.

TOA tanks only have 4 slots and the MgS/BoM is not allowed in 1 of those slots.

I am not saying the TOA is not powerful, but it does have negatives. The inability to use a TSA and a MgS are huge negatives to using one.

lostling August 29 2007 8:43 PM EDT

well show me 1 power shield that mages can use -.-" and while talking about body armor and cloak... doesnt COI play a large part in any mage's strat? just saying that mages lose out more

QBRanger August 29 2007 8:44 PM EDT

A COI is a huge benefit for a mage.

Also, for mages with high native hp, the TSA is a very good option.

One can also use a McM instead to lower damage from combat and GA.

QBOddBird August 29 2007 9:27 PM EDT

So I'd like for mages to have to choose between that trade-off as well.

Drop that body armor, cloak, and (lack of) power shield for a boost to DD! The ToM! =)

I'm fairly sure most any multi-minion mage, as do most tanks, would take that tattoo over the body armor, cloak, what-have-you. It's free experience.

Anywho, how did we get on the ToA topic again?

Point is, Mageseeker > Seekers. =)
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