September 24 2007 9:12 PM EDT
Wiki says: "Gives a bonus to effective DX on defense equal to the evasion level. "
Now I would like to propose that this to become 30% of level. And then just give back the old bonus multiplier in ranged.
Reason: It's just unspeakable to have a single investment to completely nullify both invested N/W (PTH) and trained exp (dex) of a tank. I know this was supposed to help mages, but hey, it's totally wacko now if you study closely. Especially with the new "ZOMG overpowered" RoBF :)
September 24 2007 9:36 PM EDT
Let us not forget nullify the millions of levels of trained Ethereal Chains.
September 24 2007 9:57 PM EDT
It does a lot, yes, and I believe it is over-powered.
But then again, if you want an example of an item that negates a huge amount of magic with a very small investment, you need look no further than the MgS.
I have a very large MPR investment in my Evasion, with a 14-million dollar pair of EBs to augment it.
A similarly-priced MgS will stop 45% of all magic, and will stack with the plethora of other means to drive DD damage into the ground. And it's an item, meaning that a user can keep building an MgS larger and larger, using it on whichever team he/she wants. At least Evasion isn't transferable.
I'm all for cleaning up things that seem over-powered -- but don't change Evasion and then stop there. *smile*
September 24 2007 10:36 PM EDT
It seems a bit overpowered, but then again, the ranged/melee damage are ridiculously high with a combination of VA, if evasion defensive dex become 30 % of the level, all melee tanks will be able to hit no matter how big is your evasion (well unless it's at (500) or something).
September 25 2007 2:21 AM EDT
I personally saw nothing wrong with evasion. I was more worried about 400 PTH from a tank.
September 25 2007 2:49 AM EDT
Well maybe it seems "OK" if you want to consider damage per hit for "normal" tanks... but for UC tank, it really hurts. Although we do benefit from having Evasion ourselves, but it still hurts :P
Imagine I have 3mil UC and 3mil Dex completely nullify by another guy that only needs to train 3mil evasion. Plus, 3mil level of evasion has lower training curve than 3mil level of UC.
September 25 2007 3:17 AM EDT
You've still got DX, also you can use a ToA and you'd have a lot of PTH. All evasion can do is get a few Elven gears on and hope for the best, you can seriously Augment UC.
September 25 2007 3:19 AM EDT
What is the biggest bonus to evasion around? About 115%?
And the biggest bonus to UC is around 300%+?
September 25 2007 3:20 AM EDT
You could just say UC is more expensive to use, after all it is a tank, and it isn't that expensive. You just have to get the right gears and only need a ranged weapon.
September 25 2007 3:39 AM EDT
Unarmed Combat: 3,221,333/1,318,971 (152)
Not biggest, but that's what I have. Now let's compare to a factual data from Karn's post.
Evasion: 3,055,216/1,687,965 (180)
At lvl 3mil he already have 180 effect, but at 3.2mil lvl I am still 152.
So now, 180 > 152, I already lose out PTH challenge.
3 mil > 2.1 mil , I now lose out DEX challenge as well.
So what can I do ? Don't mock me about getting the right items to boost, coz I already did what I can. The most I can do is to add another 10 UC effect from naming all items I have, and yes I am too poor for that just yet. Also, whatever item I can use to increase UC, evasion guys can do it better. If Helm's work and cost like DB, I won't complain :P
And speaking of ranged, the most practical weap that UC guy can use is xbow or SOD. If you don't believe me, try using a bow on a non-archery char.
September 25 2007 4:58 AM EDT
Do Single Minion UC the JW way... equip a ToA; yes you lose some UC but you gain PTH - more hits means more damage yes? And you get to use a bow. You might not hit triples but you'll be guaranteed double hits thanks to ToA PTH and the nifty way it avoids the bow without archery penalty.
You will lose some UC levels and you lose that Gi's extra evasion. But you'll be doing a lot more damage overall....
September 25 2007 5:08 AM EDT
Hmmmph. I forget that UC is actually capable of doing a fair amount of damage....
you're hitting on average 250k per strike. FOUR times per round. So per round your UC is kicking in for a nice million. That's pretty good. And the evasion means I don't touch you at all while you're doing that.
I'm going to leave you to it.... :P
September 25 2007 5:18 AM EDT
His comparison shocked me.
Using the ToA also lets you put more into UC, the chances of finding an evasion that high to nullify is what? 2 users in the game? If they're spending that much to nullify PTH don't you think its fair?
It's like saying an AMF of 3 million shouldn't give backlash to a FB of 3 million, they're getting what they paid for.
Use DD if you can't hit them, but you can, it's with a ToA, evasion is mighty fine, if he spends half his total xp into evasion to stop tanks from hitting him, that's fair.
Evasion is needed to counter the ToA PTH. DB can counter Weapon based PTH fairly.
Things is, if you face Evaison and *don't* use a ToA (as that's what it's balanced around) you're not going to have an easy time...
Remove/reduce the PTH reduction from Evasion, and the ToA moves back to preeminance.
With defensive dexterity from Evasion now, it's possibly time to remove the dexterity reduction from Evasion/DB/RBF/AoI effect you have over your targets PTH.
September 25 2007 5:49 AM EDT
How many hits are possible of just DX? with a +0 weapon, can you get double hits?
150% based on optimum dex conditions
September 25 2007 11:29 AM EDT
Is it possible for a tank to just use a sword? Or do you require a bow to fair well?
September 26 2007 1:58 AM EDT
There are a few melee tanks out there, JW used to be one, I'm one.
Many of them have now taken up to using ax/exbow as they isn't that hard to hit with.
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