Another solution to the Supporter Item shortage? (in General)

Just thought of this last night and after sleeping on it, I think it makes a lot of sense...

Why not limit supporter items to 1 equipped per minion? (Yes, minion, not character...)

The would not apply to the JKF because it is sort of a minion itself. But for all other items, only one could be equipped per minion.

In my opinion, this would lower the price of supporter items and make them more available for everyone.

do we really need more advantages for multi-minion teams as opposed to single-minion ones?

What supporter item shortage?

I agree with GL on this and every other post that he says "What supporter item Shortage?" Just because most people aren't willing to spend money buying supporter items when they have the chance... or when they have the money... doesn't mean that there is a shortage. I have had a chance to buy every supporter other than the JKF, oh but look... I picked one up anyways.

There is no shortage... now stop with the shortage/world is ending posts... and go to auctions and spend the going market price on a supporter item near you ^_^ Because if you don't, Central will buy it out from beneath you and then you will be out of luck!

based on the results of the current poll, it would appear that about 70 percent of the community believes that there is a shortage. with 244 votes cast out of an average of less than 400 active users, i would say that is a pretty darn good sample of the players. couple that with the fact that jon has already brought back one supporter item for an encore and you have intent to keep a certain population of said items in game.

perhaps it is time to quit denying there is an issue and help find a solution that we can all live with?

We should do a poll to find out how many supporter items are actually ACTIVE and not just being horded.

dude, wanting them to be reintorduced doesn't equate to there being a shortage.

Or any less of a shortage than ELBows, MH, etc.

There are 102 MH and 218 HoC!!!

ZOMG! MH Shortage! ;)

Whew that was spooky. I just went to the items overview page to get those very numbers......:/

LoL!

I suspect some people still think we're a multi! ;)

Heh, we need to get to the pub and get a photo taken!

Us and all the supporter items we're hiding from the game....

12 mh auctions this month, average price of 2 to 3 million

7 hoc auctions this month average price of 5+ million

0 aof auctions since june

I think the main reason that poeple want supporter items reintorduced for USD to Jon, is that it's cheap and easy.

ﾣ3 (or less...) can get me an Uber Supporter item, that if I'm not gonna use, I can sell.

Cheapest way of getting in game cash, or not having to spend my heard earned cash!

We're lazy and want want want.

If Jon wanted newer players to have unlimited access to old supporter items, we'd be able to Ink the JKF.

Vorpal Blade 199
Amulet of Invisibility 205
Amulet of Focus 174
Trollskin Armor 204
Pair of Noldorin Spellcasters 180
Helm of Clearsight 218
Mage Shield 191
Jigorokano Familiar 421
Rune of Enlightenment 289

Wow so let me figure this out... some of you think that we need at the least one of each supporter item for everyone? I don't get it... out of 360 active users there are enough supporter items out there for everyone to have at the least 3?

What is the flaming issue here? Or are some people getting upset that some people are hoarding certain ones and when they look to buy one they can't get one due to not a high enough offer. You know... if you were to offer me 5 mil for any of my supporter items no matter how small they are... I'm pretty sure I would take you up on that offer.

So?

While there might be an "Auction" shortage of supporter items, doesn't mean there's a shortage of them we must resolve.

Offer more money for them.

Anyone remember the 20 CB1 T-Shirts?

Point proven.... /me goes to the pub with GL to drink away our sorrows at not having enough supporter items....

While there might be an "Auction" shortage of supporter items, doesn't mean there's a shortage of them we must resolve.

doesn't the opposite hold true as well. while there are good numbers of some items, if they aren't being sold or traded then do we need a resolution? i won't argue the matter any further. all i was stating is that you can deny the issue or help come up with a good solution. if you continue to deny it then don't complain when a solution is presented that you had no input in.

LoL!

Also, I think one factor is the restriction (or rather lack of) on some supporter items.

You can only have one JKF or RoE on your team. Ever. You probably won't want, or use, more than one VB or MgS.

But, you could use up to three (maybe four...) AoI and HoC on your team, while only being able to purchase one thorugh Jon.

"while there are good numbers of some items, if they aren't being sold or traded then do we need a resolution?"

Dude, there are over 400 Tulwars in the game, I doubt any have been sold. Recently or ever.

Don't we therefore need a resolution?

Hey wait for me!


Comparing morgs and some of the supporter items though is a bit of slippery area. To get some real understanding of the comparison you need to ask how many HIGH END Morgs have gone through auctions recently; and if they have how much were they going for?

The real issue is still not a lack of items though IMO, it's the way people think they are necessary. You don't need any item in the game to be able to run a team.

Also, you must discount the Morg auctions that are spawned by the auctioneer.

hehe, gl is the one that wanted to compare morgs to supporter items to begin with...now he thinks tulwars have a similar desirability?

changing the game is much easier than changing peoples perceptions though.

I agree, I can safely removed all supporter gears and still be able to compete. Its all about strategy and MPR at the end of the day.

Amulet of Invisibility 19/205 20
Amulet of Focus 23/174 19
Trollskin Armor 8/204 13
Pair of Noldorin Spellcasters 13/180 10
Helm of Clearsight 16/218 14
Mage Shield 9/191 10

First number before the amount of items out there is the number in rentals currently, and thats without Freed having his rentals out at the moment...
Second number after the amount is how many of each item is currently being used in the top 20 excluding Lorenzo and Black Sophist... due to them not being properly equipped atm. And most of the items are being used more than once on some teams.... Just some food for thought.

Dude, you were claiming that;

"while there are good numbers of some items, if they aren't being sold or traded then do we need a resolution?"

Why should the *only* hold for the supporter items?

If it's a problem (and I don't think it is) then it's a problem for *all* items, including Tulwars.

Or is it the case, there's only a shortage of items *you* (and in general all the poeple asking for more and easier to get supporter items) want, which is why there are claims of shortages?

Please explain what the shortage is.

"0 aof auctions since june"

Top FS Post is FS:AoF.

if you really want to pigeon hole me, i am on your side. i want supporter items to stay so rare that people have to pay through the teeth to get them. i have, after all been playing this game since march of '03 and i should damn well get some benefit for being a vet and the only benefit left is supporter items.

realistically though, i can read the writing on the wall. as i stated earlier, jon has already made one re-release and if rumor is to be believed he will be making another soon. i would like to control the damage and have them introduced into the black market so that it is a trickle of incoming items, comparabel to the trickle going out, and changing overall numbers in a small way.

"You don't need any item in the game to be able to run a team."

Go run me a normal non-UC tank without a weapon.

Just face it, some items are necessary, the AoI opens up many different strategy choices, without a HoC you're severely hindering yourself, sure you can say that you don't need them, but it'd have a nice impact on who you can and can't beat. I can run a team that just trains GA, sure doesn't need a weapon ST/DX/HP/DD, it's just a piece of crap.

Some items are needed for strategies, with HoC and AoI coming to mind.

on the actual topic, I'd rather not limit supporter items to one per minion, as almost every damage dealer has an AoI.

"if you really want to pigeon hole me, i am on your side. i want supporter items to stay so rare that people have to pay through the teeth to get them. i have, after all been playing this game since march of '03 and i should damn well get some benefit for being a vet and the only benefit left is supporter items.

realistically though, i can read the writing on the wall. as i stated earlier, jon has already made one re-release and if rumor is to be believed he will be making another soon. i would like to control the damage and have them introduced into the black market so that it is a trickle of incoming items, comparabel to the trickle going out, and changing overall numbers in a small way."

Not got a problem with any of that. ;)

What I do have a problem with is people excusing this as a 'Shortage'. It's not.

It's simply people wanting more, and wanting it easier than it is now.

If Supporter items weren't so gosh darn good compared to everything else, this wouldn't be an issue.

I still say the best option is to limit some of them some more.

Make a 'Power Helm' category for example, or something like that.

Wow, Draco was quick to troll this post. Who would have thunk it.

I'm running a ranged based team without HoC. Adding a HoC changes not one person on my fightlist. I am using an AoI, but again I can run the team without it and still beat the same people. You can't run a tank team without a weapon (unless it's UC) no, but weapons are a whole other matter as far as I'm concerned. They're a necessary - either trained or equipped. It's a fighting game after all!

But items like AC, or the various bonus giving items. Removing them lowers your placing; if I was to take the Belegs off I wouldn't be able to beat everyone on my fightlist because of the drop in damage. But it doesn't stop you fighting. It just means that you might have to fight lower.

"Wow, Draco was quick to troll this post. Who would have thunk it."

Trolling? Isn't that a bit of an abrasive accusation?

The answer to this quandary seems obvious to me on account of my 133t ombudsman skilz0rz. Re-introduce the HoC and don't allow draco or GL to buy any. NEXT!

Yes Exactly JW... it just means you have to Strategize (Wow, big word huh?) Well that means a little more hard work... and a little more thinking into your strat... maybe a few more tweaks here or there but you don't "Need" every supporter item to fight. Also you don't "Need" any supporter item to put together a working strategy... but its nice to have them.

Look at me... I just sold my Hoc and I haven't changed my Fight list one bit. That just goes to prove how somethings are just thought to be so important as to you need it for your strat. I don't need anything, its just nice to have what I have. Oh and for anyone that complains about needing the Hoc... look at the penalties and evasion bonus for the first round of ranged... now tell me if you hit every single person on your list in the first round of ranged. Bet you'll be surprised who doesn't get hit and who you don't need an hoc for.

And Jenni, please don't involve yourself and try to start anything if you don't have anything constructive or on topic to say.

Why don't we start a league where nobody can use any supporter items at all? ;)

Tournament? ;)

"But items like AC, or the various bonus giving items. Removing them lowers your placing; if I was to take the Belegs off I wouldn't be able to beat everyone on my fightlist because of the drop in damage. But it doesn't stop you fighting. It just means that you might have to fight lower."

Why would you want to fight lower when you don't have to, spend money that you make on an item that will increase the number of people you can beat.

I think there is a shortage, my definition is that not many are being sold at all, you can go finding the needle in the haystack and say "Here's one!", but the fact of the matter is if you compare it to the other normal rare items, because that's what they are, a lot more of them are for sale and they still retain their base value of 1-2 mil.

Following the logic posted here, we should be waiting 2 months or so and paying 5 mil for a MH.

If you're fighting lower it doesn't mean that you have to stay lower; train, train and chuck your spare cash into your weapon and you'll probably be at the same spot in a very short while.

"I think there is a shortage, my definition is that not many are being sold at all"

How many Tulwars are being sold flamey? Does that mean there's a shortage?

Or does it only matter because *you* want one?

Has anyone taken into consideration that maybe people are still trying to go off the old prices on these items? Inflation and the change to Ba spawn times have changed the amount of money everyone is raking in. Now on a good day most people can burn most if not all their ba which in turn nets them more profit. More money in the game, the more money people are willing to throw at certain items for their strats. That in turn sets a trend and some people start charging more and more for items seeing a profitable field. That in turn makes the prices rise and the demand rise, but nobody buys because they now "cost too much."

demand comes into play there too though. atm tulwar supply is meeting and probably exceeding demand.

"How many Tulwars are being sold flamey? Does that mean there's a shortage?

Or does it only matter because *you* want one?"

I'd also like to add something about demand in there, you know what I mean. There is no demand for tulwars, so that means there's no shortage.

I don't want one, I have every supporter item since when I joined, I don't just my HoC, NSC, RoE, they're there because they're trophies.

A Helm of Clearsight [5] (+7) $54,129 $1,400,000 May 5 3:37 AM EDT
A Helm of Clearsight [5] $2,570 $2,940,000 June 6 7:11 AM EDT
A Helm of Clearsight [5] (+7) $54,129 $3,837,352 July 6 12:15 AM EDT
A Helm of Clearsight [5] (+10) $231,632 $4,600,000 August 2 11:32 PM EDT
A Helm of Clearsight [5] (+9) $142,433 $4,630,616 September 5 9:25 PM EDT
A Helm of Clearsight [5] (+9) $142,433 $5,500,000 September 27 10:10 AM EDT

Hmm.... well ain't that interesting. Does anyone else see that trend there or is it just me? And keep in mind... the nw of an HoC is pretty much negligible unless someone is looking for a low nw one.

"Why would you want to fight lower when you don't have to, spend money that you make on an item that will increase the number of people you can beat."

The problem here is that everyone wants to be a USD user with their CBD. They want items instantly available with their money, any item they want for their strategy, so that the top 200 can all have a HoC, TSA, MgS, and 3 AoI's on their team. That way it'll be "Fair". Oh, and they all owned a RoE to rise to the top. That was "Fair" as well. There had to be plenty of Supply to meet the demand, and nobody had to work or wait for their items.

"Following the logic posted here, we should be waiting 2 months or so and paying 5 mil for a MH."

Yes, maybe there would be value in such weapons then, the way there is in a HoC. Because a few days ago before the massive influx of HoC into the market, when someone finally got a HoC, they got excited. It was a GOOD feeling, because they had finally gotten that item that was of so much value to them.

It's still that same old 'wanna have it and have it now and if I can't have it now I wanna have it 5 minutes ago' syndrome I joked with JW about in the other thread.

Draco, in about 7 threads jon hinted that he would be reintroducing the HoC, but yes, I can see that pattern with the other 10 supporter items too.

Well then why don't we all stop chatting about it and wait the days away for Jon to re-introduce certain supporter items instead of getting a "Shortage of Supporter items." thread every day.

I hate to say it. But they are supposed to be in short supply. They are classed as "rares" right? If everyone had access to any item then there would be no point in having rares at all. Different people have a price of which they can be bought. Offer enough money to the right person, and they will sell you their item. If I had my heart set on an item, I would offer that person "ﾣenter stupid amount of money here" and buy it.

There is no shortage of items?

"I'd also like to add something about demand in there, you know what I mean. There is no demand for tulwars, so that means there's no shortage."

Exactly...

People want the best, and are using 'shortage' as an excuse. There are more Supporter items than some of the most used non supporter items, yup people want want want, and are trying to claim there's not enough.

So why don't we just give everyone every item? then there would be no demand, and therefore no shortage.

That's what we want right?

Otherwise there will always be demand...

Wasp, the definition of CB's rares is different to the actual word rare, I forgot what exactly it was, someone else had said it, I think rares in this came just are special, not so much hard to come by.

"They want items instantly available with their money, any item they want for their strategy, so that the top 200 can all have a HoC, TSA, MgS, and 3 AoI's on their team. That way it'll be "Fair". Oh, and they all owned a RoE to rise to the top. That was "Fair" as well. There had to be plenty of Supply to meet the demand, and nobody had to work or wait for their items."


Gimme gimme gimme, want want want. If I don't get it, there's a shortage. Bow to my greed, Jonathan, and reintroduce the HoC.

Flamey, then why don't we let everyone have any amount of all the items they want?

That's the answer right?

Okay, apart from HoC, because for most teams doing anything in ranged, HoC is a clear 33% advantage in ranged, what other supporter items are "absolutely vital" ?
Give an archer a TSA and he's stronger, yay, but now he has to sink more XP into archery oh, and the HP regen, great, but you have to train up 1000000 HP just to get 50k HP back per turn. That's great if your opponent is doing less than, say a couple of hundred K per round. You may just get one extra round. On the other hand, stick a +50 AC on the guy and he'd probably last longer anyway.
JKFs ? Anyone ? "Everyone" disses them and says they're useless beyond a certain point except those few, what, 3 teams that have stuck with them and enjoy the benefits. If they're so uber, how come only 3 teams have kept one long enough for them to show up on the big tattoo radar ?
VBs ? Yeah, right ? I just switched my VB for a BoTH at half its net worth and I lost one team from my fightlist. Seriously, VBs have been downgraded so far there's barely any advantage unless you're fighting Koy or one of the others in team-400AC.
I submit that for all the money I spent making sure I had one of every supporter item I thought I might ever need, that if I'd spent it on buying regular/rare items my team would probably actually be doing better.

I wanted a CB1 T-shirt. It was the only body armoru that gave a plus to DD, and I was a single Mage.

They went for upwards of 6 Million, and usually were only sold when one fo the 20 ( or less, as some had 4 on thier team..) sold out and left.

I don't think anyone complained that there wasn't enough supply, even though many wanted one...

And there's no supporter item here with less than 20 of them in existance.

"Draco, in about 7 threads jon hinted that he would be reintroducing the HoC, but yes, I can see that pattern with the other 10 supporter items too."

I must keep missing these threads. Could someone hyperlink me or something? I could've sworn all that happened was he said in Chat, "I know what item I'd be reintroducing next", or something to that effect.

sorry bad wording OB, in about 7 threads people have mentioned that Jon hinted in chat that the HoC was to be reintroduced.

That's why there's a sudden upsurge in the selling of HoCs, but HoCs are the only supporter items that are hard to come by.

GL, we don't need to completely stop the shortage, it's just that when buying an MH/ELB for 2 mil, you still feel achieved, yes they're rare, by the proper definition, they don't come by all the time, but 2 mil, its a fair price to ask for, it'll take you a few weeks to save for.

But the HoC is getting a little ridiculous don't you think? 6 mil for it? I understand at most 2 mil, but that's too much.

Is there a shortage of Morgs? Mageseekers? Elven Hauberks? Displacement Boots? Helms Gauntlets?

All these used and wanted items are in less supply than a HoC.

So why aren't we worried about the 'shortage' or them?

Stop buying them for 6 mill. Everyone.

Then prices will come down.

It's like setting CB to USD ratios.

The demand seems to be too great for the HoC?

*Ahem* Yes.

"Oh my god this is so freaking costy! HoCs go for insane prices!

/me goes to buy an HoC at 6 mil"

Something is wrong with the preceeding lines, can you see what?
HoC are plentiful, but people buying them for stupid prices are the cause of them being hoarded and sold for those stupid prices.

HoCs*

Tell ya this much, every one of mine could've gone for less. I've put *every* one in there for a dollar, and left it up to the buyers to set the price.

"But the HoC is getting a little ridiculous don't you think? 6 mil for it? I understand at most 2 mil, but that's too much."

And now we get tot he heart of the problem. It's not a shortage.

You feel the current price for HoC's is too much. To lower them, you want more to be introduced.

Do we really want to influence the CB economy in this fashion?

What about when Melee get's changed and the Morg now become king. Better than anything to do with Ranged. But there's only 100 of them! they start to sell for gazillions.

It's ok, we'll just get more to spawn. Maybe we ask for a way of buying them off Jon...

(and this doesn't even touch the subject of the relative 'power' of individual supporter items...)

There's always a constant flow of normal items, plus MH isn't the only melee item, I hear the BoNE and ELS have a chance now, as well as the BoTH.

You are purposefully missing his point, I think...

No, I was responding to when he said MH's were going to cost gazillions if melee became king.

I answered with the supply, there's always a slow steady supply of MHs.

My mistake then, you UNintentionally missed his point.

He was saying anytime something becomes popular and we can't get ahold of enough of the item, should we just beg Jon to release more? What kind of economic influence, what kind of practice are we promoting with this behavior? We've already convinced Jon to do it once with the stomping and begging, and now again?

Every time there's a new 'hot item' and all 360 active members can't have 4, is Jon going to have to re-release it?

im thinking that the main problem remains that there are little alternatives for the items.... such as HOC...

theres only 2 choices of hats an archer can use. HOE(str) or HOC(extra round)(also useless in my opinion) HOD is out due to the high penalties....

i would strongly suggest that jon buff up the other neglected items or simply wipe them from the system... as i think they are just useless to a large degree... i mean like whoever uses a longsword above 500k MPR -.-

sheez give the other items some loving by giving them small effects... like give claymore a small splash of lets say 5% or allow chain mail a larger resistance against archer attacks... or even give Heaumes the ability to evade physical attacks 5% of the time

Note: there was a *lot* of overexaggeration in that post to get my point across. Please don't take it completely literally. I just realized someone might actually do so.

After reading this thread I just want to add this.

Well I disagree there is a shortage of supporter items, I will suppose this is true for this post. Why then, is this an issue? I stumbled across CB2 on my own time, over a year ago. I payed money to become a supporter, and have been buying the items from Jon whenever I got the chance.

I had to shell out much CB$ for my TSA, and my VB, and I never complained for a minute about there being too little. Why? I have an understanding that people who stick with something longer naturally will have more proficiency and more benefits then those who are new. It's kind of a gaming seniority.

If the NUB isn't a blow to those that have stuck with the game all these years, surely allowing everyone access to rare supporter items that rewarded loyalty and dedication will be a nasty one.

Whats the point of sticking with CB anyways? Some new player can come in and whine they want all these rare items that were released on special conditions and *poof* they are re-released. I am all for supporting new players into the game, but I have my limits.

"There's always a constant flow of normal items"

Normal.

Supporter items *are not normal* items. They are much better.

In this regard, they must have limits. Currently, availabiltiy is the limit (with the MgS also having the 'Power' category).

That is why there is not a constant flow of these item.

from my experience jon doesn't really respond to whining or foot-stomping. it may appear that way but i think that is coincidental. from jon's past actions i would say he is more worried about inflation and that is why he will re-release items, much as he has recently increased some fees as well.

he likes to play the greenspan every now and then. :)

...except re-releasing the items doesn't really do anything about inflation, does it? There's a difference between dollar inflation and increasing item value...

i wasn't trying to connect or correlate the two, merely stating that he takes, and has taken, an interest in both aspects of the economy and will likely do so again.

Draco: Look at how many of them were posted AFTER Jon said what he did RE: HoC's/rereleased. Oh yeah, four of them. As I've said to other people, I have no problem with anyone trying to make money or protect their investment. Saying that you sold yours to "stop people from whining about supporter items being too rare", after being active in chat when Jonathan said what he said, is a lie.

You want to get the most out of your investment. I'm fine with that. Don't try to make this discussion, as it pertains to you, about anything other than that. Thanks!

"Supporter items *are not normal* items. They are much better. "

I see what you're saying, but to me, they're just rares, they seem to have an effect like the MH does. Come to think of it, I just see supporter items as special effect items, that's why I don't we should be paying ridiculous prices, sure I don't mind if we had to pay a lot, but 6 mil? that's just silly.

Maybe the rerelease of the HoC would be too much and make them worthless, but the RoE is fine after being reintroduced actually.

I'd like to see Jon bring in say 10 or so HoCs, I'm not too sure of the number, put them in auctions and sell the proceeds for USD for profit too himself. If prices of certain supporter items sky rocket again, I'd like to see a small reintroduction of the items, not a lot, but to get rid of ridiculous prices and make them just expensive, you still have to work to get them, but you shouldn't have to wait 6 months and pay 6 mil.

so this is over? :P