HoC base AC adjusted (in Changelog)


AdminJonathan September 29 2007 11:45 AM EDT

From 5 to -5.

Upgrade pricing also went up a bit.

Zinc [Guardian Bros Inc] September 29 2007 11:46 AM EDT

ew

BluBBen September 29 2007 11:47 AM EDT

First item with negative AC :-P

BluBBen September 29 2007 11:47 AM EDT

And oh, good change by the way.

Eurynome Bartleby [Bartleby's] September 29 2007 11:49 AM EDT

So...will you actually take MORE damage while wearing an HoC, or will this change only make it harder to actually get AC from the Helm?

[Nkki]WildEagle [SNB Forging Services] September 29 2007 11:49 AM EDT

I like the change, it nerfes the HoC a bit (not too much, but at least a bit). I think it's good :) But what if one has nothing but the HoC equipped.. he will have overall AC of -5, what effect would that have?

AdminJonathan September 29 2007 11:51 AM EDT

It adds into your total AC. So if you had a base EH [22] and a base HoC [-5] your effective AC would be 17.

Effective AC can't go below 0 right now, it makes my head hurt. :)

lostling September 29 2007 11:51 AM EDT

lol personally i dont see any difference lol people use HOC for the effect not for the AC lol

Eurynome Bartleby [Bartleby's] September 29 2007 11:53 AM EDT

Still, -5 AC is gonna show at higher levels of protection.

Strange change for sure :P

Kong Ming September 29 2007 12:01 PM EDT

So it will show 0 if you just equip a HoC and nothing else?

Kong Ming September 29 2007 12:02 PM EDT

ops, just saw I've got a AC of -5 for my minion. It looks funny ;)

Lord Bob September 29 2007 12:02 PM EDT

Can it also nerf Skills please?

QBRanger September 29 2007 12:03 PM EDT

So what happens if it is named?

More minus to the AC?

Lord Bob September 29 2007 12:14 PM EDT

A Helm of Clearsight [5] for sale by Tylan
Help: Helm of Clearsight
Ends in 15:26:21

So the -5 still shows up as 5 then?

RobIn destructable September 29 2007 12:14 PM EDT

Lol, ranger.. it will probably give -4 only (-5 -4%(which is 0,2) - bonuses is always rounded up (from named items at least) so i think it would be -4 ac instead of the -5, or at least thats my guess.. It's gonna be mighty expensive to get more than 1 + to ac from a naming on a HoC now :P

What do you mean Lord Bob.. nerf skills? what skill gives you AC?

Lord Bob September 29 2007 12:21 PM EDT

"What do you mean Lord Bob.. nerf skills? what skill gives you AC?"

What are you talking about? I asked if it could nerf skills -in addition- to AC, not as a result. There are lots of items that penalize DX and skills.

I guess I should have said "reduce" and not "nerf."

Either way, I was joking. I don't expect Jon to even consider such an idea.

Fanta [Fanta's Forge] September 29 2007 12:24 PM EDT

The base AC is still 0. -5 AC is an effect of the HoC, so naming won't do anything except multiply the actual upgraded +. Then -5 will apply.

Fanta [Fanta's Forge] September 29 2007 12:30 PM EDT

Oh wait that statement is completely off... scratch that

iBananco [Blue Army] September 29 2007 1:06 PM EDT

So magical damage is unaffected save the upgrade pricing?

AdminJonathan September 29 2007 1:52 PM EDT

> it will probably give -4 only (-5 -4%(which is 0,2) - bonuses is always rounded up (from named items at least) so i think it would be -4 ac instead of the -5

correct

> So magical damage is unaffected save the upgrade pricing?

correct

Last Gasp September 29 2007 4:24 PM EDT

HoC Should have a REAL trade-off... something like -20 AC or -50. That way you'd have to pay a serious price for using it...

-5 will deter no one... I'll gladly use 2 of them with my strat and I don't care at all that they'll have a -5 attached.

Godpanda September 29 2007 4:32 PM EDT

Yay. My familiar won't lose AC ^.^ OWNED!

Mikel September 29 2007 5:19 PM EDT

This is one item I would never name, the price isn't worth the +1 to it.
You'd be silly to upgrade it enough to make it a +2 mod.

sooka September 29 2007 5:28 PM EDT

so how did the re-release of the HoC turn into a nerf contest?

QBRanger September 29 2007 5:30 PM EDT

I agree with GW.

The -10 to the AC is what 2% more damage?

Not nearly enough to stop people from wanting to use one.

Godpanda September 29 2007 5:35 PM EDT

Lol. The loss of AC isn't a bad thing. It really isn't. But a base protection makes up for it and then some. So... Eh. *goes to add 5 AC to his HoC*

sooka September 29 2007 5:38 PM EDT

Isn't that the purpose for this, not to make people not want to use it, but give a reason for it to get upgraded?

Tyriel [123456789] September 29 2007 5:44 PM EDT

10 AC lost is hardly enough, imo, to make somebody upgrade it. Half the minions with a HoC already have their own defenses, be it walls, evasion, AoI, EC, AMF, ToE, PL, etc. that they don't really need it.

And, besides, it's only against physical damage, mostly. The small reduction that it has against magic is relatively unchanged.

If Jon wanted everybody to upgrade their HoC instead of using the ultra-efficient base ones, he would change the effect so that it was based on upgrades. Something like 7.5% chance to fire before normal (non-HoC) combat starts for each upgrade, up to 100%.

sooka September 29 2007 6:20 PM EDT

Ok so then is the change an attempt to nerf ranged archers that have been complained about, since the archery nerf seemed trivial by everyone's responses? Or is it based on all ranged? It just seems like mages are going to get another boot up their butt when all is said and done with this nerf. I'm confused! not dazed yet....

Lord Bob September 29 2007 6:44 PM EDT

"Something like 7.5% chance to fire before normal (non-HoC) combat starts for each upgrade, up to 100%."

I suggested this earlier on the General forum, except with a 5% chance to fire per +.

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] September 29 2007 7:55 PM EDT

Doesn't really seem like a nerf to me.

Most Mage items already have zero AC (AG, DB) so the -5 won't really be noticeable.

And Archers aren't known for tiier Wall like 400 AC. ;)

sooka September 29 2007 8:00 PM EDT

I was thinking more about the mages that do try to use AC, with MCM's or EBs... which any AC change is significant for them, no?

Ancient Anubis September 29 2007 8:06 PM EDT

how about making that u have to make it a plus 10 before the extra round of ranged combat will kick in at least people will need to upgrade it a little bit to get the effect

48DangerZone September 29 2007 11:35 PM EDT

My HoC was a +3 ... Now its a +2.. What happened?

48DangerZone September 29 2007 11:39 PM EDT

This has nothing to do with it but.. My named Alatar Gloves just got an extra 5 days of naming.. What is going on?

DrAcO5676 [The Knighthood III] September 30 2007 7:52 AM EDT

So if you use this HoC with the negative AC... Hmm....

Did anyone know that you also get a negative to your PR as well? Hope no one upped their HoC's yet. Sounds more like a buff to me at the moment.

PeterGriffin October 1 2007 10:44 AM EDT

dang making this a supporter item really messed me up. I just bought 2 HoC close to base for 5.5 mill each, and now I could probably get a good 10 or so HoC for the total I paid for 2. DANG DANG DANG.

Lord Bob October 1 2007 11:07 AM EDT

"dang making this a supporter item really messed me up. I just bought 2 HoC close to base for 5.5 mill each, and now I could probably get a good 10 or so HoC for the total I paid for 2. DANG DANG DANG."

I saw this coming a mile away.

Godpanda October 1 2007 12:30 PM EDT

*points at the posts made in general before the change was announced*

Zoglog[T] [big bucks] October 1 2007 1:06 PM EDT

negative base AC will affect physical damage sustained only which results in a slight boost for mages, not another boot up the butt.

Marlfox [Cult of the Valaraukar] October 1 2007 1:31 PM EDT

Sweet. I am glad i did not pay the 5.5mil price tag for it.

BluBBen October 3 2007 7:58 AM EDT

Jon, why are there a -2% to DD from the HoC?

Flamey October 3 2007 9:01 AM EDT

Because it gives Archers an unfair advantage!!!!1!one!!!eleven!!!1!

AdminNightStrike October 3 2007 1:00 PM EDT

Dos a HoC +5 give zero PR?

Maelstrom October 3 2007 1:03 PM EDT

It should give PR regardless of the AC. Most mage gear adds PR without giving any AC.

TheHatchetman October 3 2007 1:23 PM EDT

it does give 0 PR, that just happens to be how big mine is :P

TheHatchetman October 3 2007 1:24 PM EDT

scratch that, he fixed it without saying anything
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