Strat Talk: Anti-RoBF Strategy (in General)

Dark Dreky November 16 2007 12:39 PM EST

So I'm already planning for my next NCB and was thinking with the amount of RBF strats out there that I could make a decent living out of chewing them up. So here's my idea...


1.) MM/Prot
2.) AS/PL (with an RoS)
3.) AS/PL
4.) Wall

I feel that with this build the RBF will have to chew through alot of high AC HP.. oh wait, it hits front minion always?? Yikes might have to change the order if that is true... please let me know if thats the case.

To make this more useful versus the general public I have come to this...

1.) Evasion(for MSK's)/MM/Prot(20)
Gear: AG's, CoI, EB's, HoC, AoI, MCM

2.) DM(small for prot's)/AS/PL
Gear: RoS, Corn (elven gear?), AoI

3.) Decay/AMF/AS/PL
Gear: EH, Corn (elven gear?)

4.) Evasion/HP
Gear: Entire wall set, AoF, VB

Any ideas or comments?

Dark Dreky November 16 2007 12:44 PM EST

Add an AoI on minion 3... this would filter all damage (except decay) through the wall.

Again, I'm not sure but I think that RoBF damage always hits front minion... if this is the case then I have to start reconsidering my minion order.

Dark Dreky November 16 2007 12:45 PM EST

Sorry for triple post... but add NSC's on the AMF/Decay minion! =) that'll do it!

Marlfox [Cult of the Valaraukar] November 16 2007 12:55 PM EST

I would use a ToE instead of a RoS, as I told you in chat.
Help filter out ALOT more RBF damage.

QBJohnnywas November 16 2007 1:32 PM EST

Lots of AC if you can, endurance as said above and make that MM as big as you can. Build him up as a single minion for a bit, or RoE him as often as possible.

Speaking as a RBF single minion player I'm vulnerable to big mages. PL in the mix helps you hugely because the damage given out by the RBF is not actually that high. I would think twice about decay, especially against RBF players cos most seem to have AMF on the build. You're doing more damage to yourself with decay in that scenario.

But big DD spell for your size is what I think is the ideal.

horseguy001 November 16 2007 1:53 PM EST

My strat is anti RoBF, or at least it will be with all my minions.

MM will never overcome the magic resistance. Check out my CoC, I can sometimes lose to Zinc, who only has 10k HP since it can hit him for no damage sometimes. Plus my mage has a whopping 50% more experience then my tank, and will be much much bigger then minions 3 and 4.

PL and damage reduction are on the right track, but a MM will never kill a RoBF minion, even reduced to 1 HP, unless you have a BIG mpr advantage.

Ulord[NK] November 16 2007 2:39 PM EST

Horseguy has the right idea. With only 1/4 exp in your mm, you are not gonna be killing any robf teams. You cannot fight the hugh concentration of exp in amf for most robf teams (especially single minion) with that kind of firepower. You'll have trouble killing robf chars at your mpr.

You need a huge amount of offense. Coc is great for that and mm is prolly the worst spell to use against robf. As soon as you kill the side minions and focus fire onto one minion, coc damage is unbearablely high. You need to have less exp dispersion. Have at least 33% exp into your dd and consider using the amf reducing glove. Damage reduction on your own guys help but don't overinvest in that. You need damage to overcome robf first and foremost. Good luck taking down boring chars like mine :).

lostling November 16 2007 2:42 PM EST

heavy AC single minion TSA using COC mage :) think that should do it... either that or 2 minions and you can slap on a TOE on the other minion or something

QBRanger November 16 2007 2:56 PM EST

The only "known" counters to the RBF are PL, ToE, AC, protection, and another RBF.

The only ways "known" to do damage to an evasion, AMF, HP, RBF character is a boosted USD weapon, super large dd spell, decay, or another RBF.

It should not be hard to make a strategy with these parameters.

I use "" for known as some people believe we have not discovered other ways to defend/attack the RBF.

j'bob November 16 2007 3:13 PM EST

I'm no RoBF killing machine by any means but for info sake.
3 minion team.

Min 1. Base decay AMF AS wearing the ToE
Min 2. Damage Dealer 200 AC / Decent HP
Min 3. PL wall(ish) 140(ish) AC (including EH) / highest HP in group.

My ToE is only in the 280k range but vs the same opponent I noticed it reduced the RBF damage quite a bit still. I just checked with it on and then off. Which then gets absorbed by my PL wall (which lessens it even more right?)

j'bob November 16 2007 3:14 PM EST

oops, min 3 also throws a 17 protection.

Dark Dreky November 16 2007 3:17 PM EST

Does RBF damage ignore invisibility?

Iluvatar[NK] November 16 2007 3:35 PM EST

Dreky: no. AoI works against RoBF.

QBRanger November 16 2007 3:38 PM EST

Actually, the AOI makes the RBF damage bypass it.

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] November 16 2007 6:29 PM EST

i will assume ranger is referring to me about the "known" deal. what i meant in regards to that is that we know one of the top characters can reduce robf damage by up to 95 percent without using protection at all. the unknown therefore would be how much reduction is currently possible with the "known" used in combination on a high level scale since at the time we were discussing the interactions with the robf in the upper echelons.

i am not sure if that helps this thread, but wanted to clarify things.

Tyriel [123456789] November 16 2007 6:39 PM EST

Stalemating and winning against the RoBF are two completely different things.

The only things I can think of off the top of my head to beat the RoBF (and by that, I mean the single minion AMF/Evasion/HP/RoBF or a closely resembling variation of that strategy) are CoC (and a big one at that) and a huge USD weapon. Unless, of course, you want to spend all your NUB money just to get a weapon that can hit said teams... :) A really, really, REALLY big FB or MM might be able to win, but they'd need lots of luck and/or help to win consistently.

Ulord[NK] November 16 2007 8:32 PM EST

I'm just throwing this out there knowing that some will tend to disagree, but a single fireball/coc mage with 50% trained in hp and 50% trained in dd can easily defeat a single evasion/amf/robf char of similar pr. If said evasion/amf/robf char does not train hp, put bigger chunk of exp in dd. Can such a team win against anything else at the same level is doubtful. So make a team with 50% exp in dd spell and you should be able to overcome robf of the same mpr. As for tanks, it'd be a bit of a lost cause, not because robf is imbalanced, but because evasion is such an incredible spell and robf augments that.

yoyo November 16 2007 11:39 PM EST

A Pair of Noldorin Spellcasters, are the best thing in the world against the RoBF. Junktion and DD familiar along with a Main DD mage will be enough. I am able to beat some RoBF build. and I threw junction just for the RoBF people. Although I would think that making a strat against the RoBF now might be a waste, or I hope so, because a reduction in the power of the RoBF might be around the corner.

Flamey November 17 2007 4:03 AM EST

Junction Single Mage and Familiar strat works well, not just against RoBF. So using that isn't a lost cause at all, it's probably a really good choice.
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