Are Exbows/Axbows made to work this way? (in General)
November 25 2007 4:51 PM EST
For a while i noticed the following:
Vs Iconics with his massive exbow I get this hit:
Ember hit The Grid with A Named Enforcer's Crossbow 
The Grid looks weaker!
My strength drops from 3.64 million to only 130k. Basically a 96.5% loss in my strength with only 1 hit. 2 hits drops my strength well into the negatives.
We know that strength/dexterity (for axbows) loss is based on the strength of the attacking minion and the x on the xbow.
However, I have a massive Ethereal Chains which makes his tanks strength well below 0. So, why does the exbow still leech this much of my tanks strength?
Is this right or am I just over thinking things? Or should the drain on such weapons be dependant on the actual damage one does, along with the strength (final) of the attacking minion and the x on the xbow?
Personally I think that makes a big EC a little too overwhelming to deal with. Nullifies damage (both from str as well as dex based cth), nukes defensive dex, and now would nuke the effectiveness of the stat draining xbows.
How exactly can some one beat a big EC under those circumstances?
November 25 2007 11:25 PM EST
Go mage ;)
But then you go up against MgS, EH, ToE....
November 25 2007 11:30 PM EST
Go big decay ;)
Both of which I am doing, but that still wont save my from 4 ranged rounds with 2 archers, at least not until I put another 50 mil into my DB *groans*
From what I understand, if the AxBow or ExBow do even a single point of damage, it does it's full drain affect which is based on the weapon's damage bonus, not on the damage done.
Sucking over 3M strength? That's impressive. What is it, over x3000 in the ExBow? You're going to need an equivalent pair of DBs or Evasion to stop him from hitting you since EC does not affect pth bonuses - but you probably knew that.
November 26 2007 12:22 AM EST
Yes, I know that my EC does not effect the PTH, however, leeching over 3.5M strength from doing 1 point of damage is a bit excessive, IMHO.
But if this is how it is supposed to be, that is ok. I was unsure if it is.
As long as the E/Axbow does damage, it drains to its full amount.
But with a high enough weapon 'x' (I suppose this is what is allowing the Xbow to deal tiny damage even with negative Str) to deal even 1 point of damage without Str kind of makes that limitation redundant.
I suppose we should say that either E/AXbows drain when they hit, regardless of damage done.
Or link the drain to damage done.
As the Bows have to parts to the drain, direct and percentage, why don't we link one to Damage done, and have the other apply on any hit, regardless of dealing damage?
November 26 2007 8:49 AM EST
I think the amount of strength/dex leeched should be tied in with damage done.
It makes a lot more sense that way.
Then we might just as well scrap the percentage reduction from the Bows.
November 26 2007 10:12 AM EST
well the way I look at it....for the same amount of CBD invested, if ELB can reduce millions of HP per hit :P Exbow can reduce millions of STR per hit. So it sounds right for me.
November 26 2007 11:03 AM EST
"well the way I look at it....for the same amount of CBD invested, if ELB can reduce millions of HP per hit :P Exbow can reduce millions of STR per hit. So it sounds right for me."
Interesting thought and I would have no problem if I did not have a huge EC. I can make anyone's ELB do less then 1k damage to me per hit, but the exbow drains the same no matter what strength the attacking minion has on it.
It's been this way for a long long time, you previously trained evasion to deal with just this problem. I realized your dbs are currently unavailable, but they are the answer to this. The specialty bows are the tanks MsK, and we all know how powerful that item is.
Assuming a change was made how would it be implemented? Damage done has to be a certain % of total str (say 10%) in order to get the full drain applied?
November 26 2007 1:31 PM EST
Looks like you'll just have to go mage!
...heh, sorry, couldn't resist getting that one in after all the mage complaint threads that have been given the solution "the problem is you are a mage, go tank".
November 26 2007 3:00 PM EST
Possibly the same sliding scale as damage is done. Or something proportionate to the damage done.
It seems a bit odd that doing 1 point of damage from a minion with 0 strength can still drain over 3.4M strength from my tank in 1 hit.
We will soon have +/DB wars like in cb1. Or perhaps this is what people want?
November 26 2007 5:13 PM EST
As much as I hate ax/ex-bows, they are truly the answer to taking down archer teams that in theory can deal millions of damage before melee. Unless the archer minion can afford +200 DBs they're going to be vulnerable and have no defense.
Of course they're equally good against melee tanks assuming the tank trains bloodlust.
Even a team with enough MPR to train a wall to have more ST/DX than the tank and still be viable is only "immune" for 1 round.
Actually, this is really only Exbows since there is a way around axbows.
November 26 2007 5:35 PM EST
Hmm, Are they supposed to work like this ?
How come sometimes when I hit (first fight) the minion gets clumsier and sometimes (second fight) he doesn't ? That minion has over 100k Dx so it's not as if there's nothing to lose.
My minions' names all start with X - Anyone below whose name starts with S is an opponent.
Xero shot Spawn's First 
Spawn's First looks clumsier!
Xero hit Sleek white Ferrari 
Xero shot Sleek white Ferrari 
Sonny hit Xihar 
Xihar looks weaker!
Xihar's Guardian Angel smote Sonny (24769)
When you drain your target to zero (or below), any further attacks on the same target no longer drain, so you don't see the "Gets Weaker" message.
November 27 2007 5:04 AM EST
He hit a different minion though.
Its because Yukk has Ec on his char and Spawn is at negative as is. If he took the Ec off the other drain would be there.
a fix has been undone then, I asked Jon about this during a change month thread. The speciality bows do keep draining (so they have an effect on defensive dex) after you hit zero... for a while it did keep saying the drain message even though you had already hit the negatives...
It still drains past zero if what Jon orginally said is correct
But that would be only on Evasion minions, right, Novice?
it was continuing to display the drain message on all minions
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