Query about the N*B (in General)


Mem November 28 2007 5:11 PM EST

Are we supposed to be able to achieve 90 or 95% of the top character at the time in which we start the N*B, or is it supposed to be 90 or 95% of what the top character is going to be in four months' time? The former would suggest that the bonus isn't necessarily too far off, though, I think, the latter would suggest otherwise.

TheHatchetman November 28 2007 5:14 PM EST

I always thought of it as time compression. and as Mantra (apparently) mastered that when he made Koy, and maximized possible MPR, I don't see anybody getting much above 80% of top MPR without going solo hiring a/some minion(s) at the end...

QBsutekh137 November 28 2007 5:17 PM EST

As far as I have ever read, it is meant to account for four months in the future as well. It tries to take everything into account.

Mem November 28 2007 5:19 PM EST

But which time is it compressing? The effort put forth by the top player at the time of creation, or the effort put forth by that same top player in the time up until the moment your character's bonus ends?

QBRanger November 28 2007 5:29 PM EST

Per numerous posts by Jon, it is to take into account where the top character will be in 4 months time when the N*B runs out.

Mem November 28 2007 5:32 PM EST

Then there's a grievous error here!

QBRanger November 28 2007 5:33 PM EST

What is the error?

You have to hit the ground running, use a ROE almost all the time and miss no BA/buy all your BA.

TheHatchetman November 28 2007 5:47 PM EST

Like Mikel? ;)

DrAcO5676 [The Knighthood III] November 28 2007 5:50 PM EST

I had already figured that you had bought almost all if not all and used almost all your BA, Mem. Otherwise is that the difference that an Roe makes?

horseguy001 November 28 2007 6:00 PM EST

I don't know about that.

I'm not trying to blow my own horn here, but out of every N*B out there I am growing the fastest by far. I started with an extra 1600 BA, named RoE the entire time, have bought every single BA since I started, missed very little BA, and until recently maintained a high challenge bonus (though I still fight pretty naked to keep it as high as I can). My growth rate is slowing down considerably, and even after hiring my two minions at the end I will probobly only hit 2.7 mil mpr, if I am lucky.

I know Ranger had an RoE on for awhile, but if it truly is 95% of where Koy would have been in 4 months, then I should hit 3 mil mpr no problem, especially with hiring at the end.

Mem November 28 2007 6:03 PM EST

This wasn't a complaint due to me missing more than a fair share of BA, but even if I had used a RoE the other three months and used all of my BA I wouldn't have gotten anywhere near where the bonus is advertised to take me or anyone that starts one.

I didn't even start this thread to talk about my own shortcomings. I just wanted an answer since I've never heard anyone mention anything that even comes close to this. And I read the forums quite often! If anyone can provide a link to these many times that Jon has referred to the answer I would appreciate it greatly! Thanks. :)

Soxjr November 28 2007 6:28 PM EST

Also, from what I have read. Nowhere does Jon state that a person has to use a RoE to get to the 95% of the top person. So stating that the RoE is needed means that the bonus must be off. The only way the RoE is needed should be if the top person is using one also.

TheHatchetman November 28 2007 6:35 PM EST

Hey Sox, Guess what. :P

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] November 28 2007 6:38 PM EST

You shouldn't need to use a RoE to hit the 95% by the end of your Bonus time.

Unless the top dog is also using a RoE....

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] November 28 2007 6:39 PM EST

LoL! Beaten to it! ;)

Rubberduck[T] [Hell Blenders] November 28 2007 6:50 PM EST

The problem is if it is set to get you to 95% without RoE or buying minions then there is potential for a constant leapfrogging of No.1 MPR as RoE / minions buying is used. This is what Mantra did. The RoE makes setting the N*B rate difficult in my view.

QBRanger November 28 2007 6:52 PM EST

RD brings up the point that has been stated numerous times.

How can someone know where one will end up if you can buy MPR and use the ROE?

If you make it based upon ROE usage, then you penalize those that do not use one.

If you do not, then you give those with a ROE a nice advantage.

lostling November 28 2007 6:57 PM EST

as you said yourself ranger many many times :) ROE vs tattoo MPR growth vs tatt growth so i guess it should be based on without an ROE...

QBsutekh137 November 28 2007 7:29 PM EST

I know I'm in love with myself, but this all seems like more the reason to make the bonus be a hoard of BA -- not an incessant need to burn the BA daily and compress everything into 4 months.

Imagine it -- the NUB is just a large reservoir of extra BA a new player can use as they learn the game. They could go slow at first, then use more, then save a large bunch toward the end. Instead of an end date, we would all be able to see how much "Bonus BA" the new player was sitting on.

Everything else would be the same.

Here's what it would eliminate:

-- Loss of BA for when the game is down. Your extra pool of BA would still be there.
-- A rush for new players, especially in those times early on when it is hard to know what you are doing and fight list is changing daily (if not hourly).
-- Allows some modicum of rationing for when a new player is away or when encountering changes (i.e. changemonths).

The problems:

-- Clanning. That extra BA would bea pain to deal with...
-- Accrual changes? I gues you could tell the newbie if they switch, their BA will adjust accordingly (jacking it down to match the lower rate/increased rewards).
-- Other?

Every time I bring this up I get more and more excited. Maybe because it makes more and more intuitive sense as the gamegrows older. Packing almost three years of a game into 4 months? Gah! That's nuts! But if it is done as a BA reservoir, I think it could be more fun for the players AND the people watching!

TheHatchetman November 28 2007 7:34 PM EST

"I know I'm in love with myself, but this all seems like more the reason to make the bonus be a hoard of BA -- not an incessant need to burn the BA daily and compress everything into 4 months."

Give the battles challenged some meaning for those not made in January of '05? I love it!

TheHatchetman November 28 2007 7:46 PM EST

Another problem - new players not able to blow through 5-10k BA /day because they hit the end of their reservoir would feel relatively discouraged...

QBOddBird November 28 2007 7:53 PM EST

"RD brings up the point that has been stated numerous times.

How can someone know where one will end up if you can buy MPR and use the ROE?

If you make it based upon ROE usage, then you penalize those that do not use one.

If you do not, then you give those with a ROE a nice advantage."

Duh. Isn't the idea behind using a RoE having a nice advantage exp-wise at the cost of growing your tattoo? It isn't a penalty to anyone not using a RoE, it simply means that they're gaining ground at 100% speed, and others are gaining ground at 115% speed.

QBRanger November 28 2007 8:07 PM EST

Not really OB.

N*B's using the ROE are growing at a N*B rate + ROE rate. They can potentially insta their tattoo at the end of the N*B while those at the top now cannot.

I gave up over 150k levels of Steeds growth to use the ROE.

horseguy001 November 28 2007 8:44 PM EST

Thats all I am doing while I use the RoE, is continually level up my tattoo. However, I am still going to fall pretty short of the 3 mil mpr mark.

I hit 1 mil mpr in just over a month, and in the same time period I think I just might make 1.6 mil mpr, which is a bit discouraging considering the crazy investment. I won't be as bad off as Mikel was however, even if I end up spending a significant amount more money for my NCB.

horseguy001 November 28 2007 8:44 PM EST

should say insta up my tattoo

QBOddBird November 28 2007 9:04 PM EST

"Not really OB.

N*B's using the ROE are growing at a N*B rate + ROE rate. They can potentially insta their tattoo at the end of the N*B while those at the top now cannot.

I gave up over 150k levels of Steeds growth to use the ROE."

Nah, they're growing at the normal N*B rate. If they choose to use a RoE, they get a bonus RoE rate added on with the penalty of not levelling a tattoo. Sure, they can choose to insta their tattoo at the end of the N*B....but really, if they get to 95% of the top MPR, whose tattoo are they going to insta to? And who is actually going to SELL?

QBOddBird November 28 2007 9:05 PM EST

Besides, RoE or no RoE, anyone can insta up their tattoo, right? That's not something special for them. Especially if they're raising a tank, and they have to put out even more money for a big tattoo that could've gone into their weapons/armors.

DrAcO5676 [The Knighthood III] November 28 2007 9:06 PM EST

I'll sell mine for 20 mil + the named RoE he used ^_^ oh wait he wasn't looking for a seller was he? ^_~

Mem November 28 2007 10:11 PM EST

The problem with your suggestions is that it doesn't account for clans, though, I realize, it's silly for me to suggest such a thing to yourself as your bias will instantly write off said problem. Clans are the only thing keeping me here. I'm not so quick to write off the one part of the game that has any semblance of change.

Anyhow, I still haven't seen those links to all those answers.

Mem November 28 2007 10:14 PM EST

Many pardons. The top paragraph of my previous post was directed at Sut. (Though, I'm sure anyone who knew Sutekh could quite easily ascertain that...)

QBsutekh137 November 28 2007 11:47 PM EST

Mem, I mention the clan issue as being a problem in my post, as I always have done when I mention my BA reservoir idea... My hatred of clans does nothing to remove my love for this game and love of the balance therein. Just because I dislike clans does not mean I would haphazardly introduce ideas meant solely to ruin clans and ruin balance. I understand and respect the fact that most people around here like clans.

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] November 29 2007 3:36 AM EST

"RD brings up the point that has been stated numerous times.

How can someone know where one will end up if you can buy MPR and use the ROE?

If you make it based upon ROE usage, then you penalize those that do not use one."

Good reason to use one of our ideas to form a continual 'bonus'. ;)

"If you do not, then you give those with a ROE a nice advantage."

Now this is a 'so'? They use a RoE over another Tattoo, it is it's own advantange (and disadvantage).

So in the scheme of things using a RoE might allow them to overtake the top MPR.

But they aren't using any other Tattoo...

Flamey November 29 2007 3:38 AM EST

And if they do overtake the top MPR then any tat they buy will be severely under their MTL.

QBJohnnywas November 29 2007 3:55 AM EST

"horseguy001, Nov 28 [collapse]
Thats all I am doing while I use the RoE, is continually level up my tattoo. However, I am still going to fall pretty short of the 3 mil mpr mark.

I hit 1 mil mpr in just over a month, and in the same time period I think I just might make 1.6 mil mpr, which is a bit discouraging considering the crazy investment. I won't be as bad off as Mikel was however, even if I end up spending a significant amount more money for my NCB."


I can make a quite accurate comparison between an NCB buying all BA with a RoE and one without.

I've missed five days bought BA in just over a month, I'm sitting now at 726k MPR. However with those five days I would be sitting around 870k or so based on how much MPR I achieve currently from my bought BA.

So after just over a month Horseguy was at a million I would have been around 870k or so. Not a huge amount of difference considering. And I have a near 1 million lvl tattoo to show for it.

However the gap between our MPR at their respective times will probably change especially as rewards start to lessen as your challenge bonus all but disappears.
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