Elven Longbow vs Mageseeker damage... (in General)

Hi all,

I was wondering just how much difference the base 6 damage of the ELB and the base 5 damage of the MS makes, especially in mid-to-high upgrade levels.

If you upgrade both to the same level of x, is the difference really noticable? I mean, noticable enough to make a big difference in winning or losing?

I'm thinking of trading in my MS for an ELB since I have on occasion noticed ELB characters doing a LOT more damage than MS ones... but this may just be because they had been upgraded more, and I don't know how damage is calculated anyway, so I'd like to know from someone who knows for sure.

With a four minion team made to last longer against tanks, you are better off with your Mageseeker. That way you target the minions that can hurt you the most first.

If you had a big AMF trained and/or if you used a MgS and/or an EH on your wall, I would say go with ELB.

I'm planning to get a MgS on at least one of my guys (and maybe even two, some time in the future) as soon as I can afford one. I already have an EH on my Evasion guy (I'll probably get a TSA on my PL guy eventually, but that's also something for the far future). Besides that, none of the characters who are curently on my fightlist are mages, so in that way the MS isn't doing me that much good. It's more the long-term deal I'm concerned about.

So thank you for your input, but what I'm really looking for are any hard numbers or even vague ideas about how the two bows relate to each other in terms of raw damage. I can see in the Wiki that the ELB is a bit more expensive to upgrade when it comes to the + (I think the difference in x cost is negligible compared to the +), but I suppose that's at least partially compensated by it's 10% higher CTH. I'm really only interested in the damage it does right now. I realise that, of course, the damage of the ELB is higher, but I'm wondering how much higher it is to decide if it's worth giving up the mage-seeking effect for.

I can't remember the numbers when I compared 2 similar bows but that extra +1 does equate to a lot more damage.

It's A LOT higher...

I have a x2500 Mageseeker and a x2500 ELB, i can run some battles and post the results shortly.

Note, both the elb and MgS are named so they are x2650:

Chaos has 33 AC, the familiar the same due to junction.

Cloudscape:

Strength: 1,225,000
Belegs: named +13

Using a x2500 ELB:

Cloudscape shot Chaos with Pull my finger [1144048]
Cloudscape struck deep into Chaos with Pull my finger [1041069]
Cloudscape hit Chaos with Pull my finger [1277492]
Cloudscape struck deep into Chaos with Pull my finger [1126192]

Using a x2500 Mageseeker:

Cloudscape hit Chaos's familiar with Spiral [651124]
Cloudscape shot Chaos's familiar with Spiral [844854]
Cloudscape hit Chaos's familiar with Spiral [740868]
Cloudscape shot Chaos's familiar with Spiral [601185]
Cloudscape hit Chaos's familiar with Spiral [883537]
Cloudscape hit Chaos's familiar with Spiral [669146]


The Grid

Strength: 3.640,000
Belegs: named +14

Using a x2500 ELB:
The Grid struck deep into Chaos with Pull my finger [2239434]
The Grid skewered Chaos with Pull my finger [2374841]
The Grid skewered Chaos with Pull my finger [2049134]
The Grid skewered Chaos with Pull my finger [2369673]
The Grid skewered Chaos with Pull my finger [2259804]

Using a x2500 Mageseeker:

The Grid shot Chaos's familiar with Spiral [1255198]
The Grid skewered Chaos's familiar with Spiral [1609100]
The Grid skewered Chaos's familiar with Spiral [1277460]
The Grid shot Chaos's familiar with Spiral [1416627]
The Grid skewered Chaos's familiar with Spiral [1604840]

Offtopic:

Well once more I notice what a crappy skill Junction is. I get a 14% damage bonus, one more shot and 33 AC for 8mil xp. Jonathannnnn do something!

I have a bit over 8 mil into Junction myself, and as much as I've previously begged for just a little bonus to come along with the Junction (percentage of level into evasion of endurance being the two biggies) I have to say it's the reason my team works, without it I wouldn't be half as successful.

Maybe it's time for another thread about it...

I have brought up the idea of familiars (not including the Hal) to train native evasion about 10-20% of its level.

Perhaps junction should train evasion as a co-existant feature. 50% of junctions level is evasion, or something like that.

I also considered that maybe Junction should simply add natural HP to the familiar. Either 1/4 of Junction level, or 1/4 of minion training Junctions HP.

Using the data above the Elbow does +57% more damage than the Mageseeker

I'd love some endurance on my familiar...

Novice if you thought junction cost a lot of points before, your head may explode now. Yikes

Note that that % difference goes up if you take into account the NW of the ELB vs. Mageseeker, since I do believe the ELB is cheaper to upgrade.

Nah according to the Wiki the Mageseeker + is somewhat cheaper to upgrade, while the x is slightly more expensive.