Strangeness with Dex (in General)

I was clicking away mindless afternoon fighting through my list when I noticed something odd

So I have a single minion with str = 20 , dex = 26 post bonus

Case 1: No EC

Minion XP HP ST DX AC DI Ammo
Warpath 514,709 231,720 20 10 43 0 / 1,173,628

16 dex disappeared mysteriously

Case 2: With EC

Ethereal Chains cast Ethereal Chains on all enemy Minions (268231)

Minion XP HP ST DX AC DI Ammo
Warpath 515,891 157,501 -268,211 -107,282 43 0 / 751,141

Str seems to be correct. Dex looks oddly out of place.

I have an AoF on which amplified enchantment effects but that should be accounted for in the enchantment casting phase. Anyone else bump into the same problem or am I just going crazy?

You have an ELB equipped. When you go into melee, you will suffer a 60% DX penalty, even if you're not using it

16 DEX disappearing is the 60% penalty to Dex for having a ranged weapon in melee.

Ah thank you. It seems having the Elbow actually helps me as my negative dex is also cut down to 40%. Sweet :D.

o_0 Good find!

As soon as I have some ba, I'll try testing this out. I wonder if the reduced negative dex is also factored in defense. Also, I'm assuming my evasion based defensive dex is not affected by the elbow in melee? From experience, I'm pretty sure it doesn't.

Test Results:

I'm fighting the character Talion v2.0 for this test.

Fire Wraith cast Ethereal Chains on all enemy Minions (1088267)

This is the level of his EC. With Elbow on, my dex is reduced to -400k. Without Elbow on, the full amount is reduced.

I have an evasion of effective level around 800k and Tailon has about 400k dex.

I fought him three times without Elbow on, he scored double hit on me all three times.

I fought him three times with Elbow on, he scored single hit twice and missed once in the first round the melee.

So this is far from conclusive but from what I can see, elbow does reduce the dex penalty from EC by 60% without impacting evasion defensive dex level.

"Ah thank you. It seems having the Elbow actually helps me as my negative dex is also cut down to 40%. Sweet :D"

Negative dex is counted as 0.

Negative str is counted as 0.

To Ranger:

I don't understand. You mean dex is capped at 0.. Does that include defensive dex from evasion?

For example, I have 20 dex and 800k defensive dex. An EC hits me reducing dex by 400k.

So scenario 1:

dex goes down to -380k and that defaults to 0. Defensive dex stays at 800k. That's unlikely.

scenario 2:

dex goes down to -380k, gets added to 800k defensive dex and leaves me with 420k dex. That's what I'd expect from experience.

But taking the example I showed above fighting Tailon's character. His EC is level 1mil or so. My dex goes to -1mil then added on 800k defensive dex. I should have a negative dex.

But with an Elbow on, the display tells me I only have -400k dex. I add that on to 800k defensive dex and now I have 400k dex. That's consistent with my empirical data.

That means I can put on a base short bow and nullify 60% of tailon's exp spent in EC in melee rounds. This is what I'm going at.

Did I miss something?

The EC doesn't take it in steps. It reduces your DX and defensive DX from Evasion at the same time. That is, you will have 0 DX and defensive DX from your natural trained DX. You will have 400k defensive DX from the Evasion.

The bow will have no effect on it. It shouldn't be affecting the defensive DX granted from evasion. So you can't put on a bow to nullify part of his EC.

Sorry Flamey, but negative DX is counted as 0, but in the event of evasion granting defensive DX, the negative DX will reduce your defensive DX.

Well, I certainly hope the Elbow isn't what's affecting that value, if the displayed value is even correct at all. I always thought EC reduced ST and DX equally? I've never seen defensive DX granted by Evasion show up ;x. Maybe I should pay more attention to my fights ~__~.

Okay, here's a scenario to explain the issue at hand:

say i have 20 DX, and 800k Evasion.
My opponent casts Ethereal Chains for 400k against me.
My DX goes to -399,980
Defensive DX is now added
With my Evasion, in melee, my defensive DX should be 400,020

If i equip a bow:
say i have 20 DX, and 800k Evasion.
My opponent casts Ethereal Chains for 400k against me.
My DX goes to -399,980
Defensive DX is now added
With my Evasion, in melee, after the 60% "penalty" for using a bow in ranged, my defensive DX is 640,008

Disregard my first post. After a long chat in chat I've got the answer.

Negative DX is only treated as 0 if you're attacking with it. In regards to being attacked you will have the negative number. So if you have 0 DX and 800k Defensive DX and the EC casts for 400k the DX will be -400k and when you're being attacked your Defensive DX will be 400k.

Using a bow does abuse this. It causes the negative DX to be a smaller number and provide a higher Defensive DX. This is why Dudemus also has equipped a compound bow.

Looks to me like we have a case of 2 negatives being multiplied together here...

It also screams "bug!".

only forseeable way to fix it would be to make the DX penalty apply to the trained DX lvl after items, but then Haste users no longer need to fear going into melee with a bow except for missing every other round...

i did try it, it seems to have no effect on those that fight me, at least in the results of the battles. i haven't really tried to see if i could now win against some i used to stalemate to.

i would also assume this is a bug.

i will be removing it, but can put it back on if anyone wants to do testing, just let me know.

Hey Dudemus:

I'm curious about how this will affect Ranger's EC. Was he able to hit you in ranged before? If so, this won't help. If he relied on hitting you in melee with his morg, then this is great news. You can effectively nullify 60% of his EC, gaining an edge in dex gap. Can you test that out?

i will try to later, just used all my ba. i just checked the post battle stats against flamey though and without a bow equipped my dex was shown as right around -750,000 and with the bow equipped it went up to around -300,000.

hehe, i only had one fight left and couldn't turn on my blow by blow. i did have over -2 mill dex after that fight, i have no idea what it would be without the bow equipped though.

i will leave it on for now so maybe others can run some tests.