Strategy Advice in case of free retrain... (in General)

Talion December 14 2007 1:29 PM EST

I was thinking of this:

Minion 1

Train: 1/4 Evasion, 1/4 AMF, 1/2 AS

Equip: EB + EC + EG + EH + Corn + AoF

Minion 2

3/4 EC + 1.0 Junction + GA (maybe base Decay too?)

Equip: IF + Corn + NSC + EB + AoI + Dagger


Big EC and decent AMF+Evasion limit damage and maximize GA if not dispelled.

When NCB is over and I start making money again, I start saving to hire a Mage wall to put in the back (if I think it is needed).

All comments and suggestions welcomed.

Ulord[NK] December 14 2007 2:22 PM EST

Why get both EC and evasion? Evasion > EC hands down if you are not attacking physically.

I would suggest greater exp concentration, ie 1/2 evasion 1/2 AS on first minion. I find it questionable whether you'll have enough hp to make use of GA with just 1/4 of your exp in AS. Might as well go 1.0 junction and rest in AMF on the 2nd minion.

Talion December 14 2007 2:34 PM EST

Thanks for the comment.

"Why get both EC and evasion?"

So that Mageseeker bows can't kill my IF before I reach melee.

1/4 AS is 'supposed' to be big enough because if an opponent trains enough DM to dispel it:

(1) It will have a hard time overcoming my small AMF.
(2) It will definitely will be over matched by my EC + Evasion combo.

But your points remain valid regardless. I will keep them in mind.

Also, Minion 1 definitely has to go in the back instead of the front because of the DD protection granted by the EH.

j'bob December 14 2007 2:52 PM EST

In the case of the IF minion being in front, if you put the EH wearing minion in back, you'll get rid of the weapon (dagger) right?

Talion December 14 2007 2:57 PM EST

"In the case of the IF minion being in front, if you put the EH wearing minion in back, you'll get rid of the weapon (dagger) right?"

I was going to write: "Of course". However, after thinking about it, I would have to see test both scenarios. My setup is made to last longer against tanks than MM users after all.

Ulord[NK] December 14 2007 4:17 PM EST

Good point about mageseeker. It is very difficult to counter those without diluting your exp. Would you consider using a pair of upgraded db instead of eb and junction that through the IF as well? This would be a formidable tank destroyer.

Talion December 14 2007 8:45 PM EST

I would rather use the pair of EB so I can invest more into EC.

QBRanger December 14 2007 10:42 PM EST

Why both EC and evasion? Pick one or the other.

Evasion to let them miss, or EC to try to make them do no damage when they hit.

Also, your evasion level will be too low with 1/8th your total xp into it. It needs to be much higher.

Then you can drop EC and move the AMF to minion 2.

Talion December 14 2007 11:24 PM EST

Training only Evasion will do nothing to save my IF against Mageseekers. Training a big EC will help it more than anything else. The 'small' Evasion will be very effective imop because of all the elven gear I will have equipped on the minion.

The combination of AS, AMF and GA will help against most mage teams. Even if the levels stay smallish.

Kong Ming December 15 2007 1:06 AM EST

You sure that EC is big enough to save your IF from being killed before melee? Unless your opponents are non-ToA tanks, then your strategy sounds fine. My team is training 66.6% of its experience into EC and I still cannot match ToA tanks...

AdminQBnovice [Cult of the Valaraukar] December 15 2007 3:12 AM EST

IF deserves a five minion team, anything less and you should just have a mage wearing a ToE instead...

QBJohnnywas December 15 2007 4:05 AM EST

Can I ask the obvious question? Why would you want to stop using the RBF?
It's the most powerful item in the game isn't it?


In all seriousness though, Nov makes a good point; you need as many kill slots as possible to get the most out of the IF. And at this level you're going to need to have at least a (100) on your evasion, otherwise you might as well not bother with it.

My own experience has always led me to not rely on AMF so much; at the upper levels you can actually do without it; the mage teams that are in the top 50 teams or so really need BIG AMF to do them any serious reduction. And if you're not reducing them much, then you can probably do without, leaving you free to pump evasion.

Talion December 15 2007 9:46 AM EST

BY my calculations, if I were to retrain according to my plan, I would have an Evasion effect of about 106 and an EC with an effect over 1.1M. And I am only at 1.25M MPR. I think I would be ok on that side. ;)

The GA will help a lot if ST is not reduced to 0 unless the ToA user really uses a big Dispel.

My actual biggest worry would be single minion mages. I am not sure if I could lest until melee against them. And most of them train a decent sized Dispel so GA would be out. My mid-sized EH would help against MM though.

Talion December 15 2007 10:06 AM EST

Almost forgot to post this for JW... :0P

QBRanger December 15 2007 10:41 AM EST


Why both EC and evasion?

If you want to go EC, then go full bore EC.

Make minion 1: 100% EC. or 75% EC/25% AS

Make minion 2: Junction/AMF/AS

But do not waste xp in both EC and evasion. You are duplicating effects that do not need it.

Talion December 15 2007 11:55 AM EST

I understand what you are writing Ranger, and it works very well for your huge character. It would also work pretty well on any sized anti-tank character.

In my opinion though, EC and Evasion still work very well in tandem on a 2 minion team.

With the 105 effect and defensive DX provided I would get with Evasion and the size of the EC on the other minion, an opponent would need at least 1.5M DX with a +100 weapon to even get a chance of hitting my Evasion wall during range (remember, my character is only at 1.25M MPR). I think that gives my familiar a very legitimate chance of making it to melee against most tanks around my character's PR.

And that also leaves enough XP to train AMF and AS bigger than they could be trained on dedicated minon on a three minons team.
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