Help clan chars between 800k - 1.8mil score (in General)
Please for the love of god Jon, help us! Clan characters between the scores listed in the subject have an "impossible/very very difficult time" being in any fighting clan, ever. Everyone at the very top of the score ladder picks us off in order to gain CPs, and makes it virtually impossible to play in any clan. I can't them fight back, and my CPs just basically die because of it.
HELP US JON, YOU ARE OUR ONLY HOPE!
January 2 2008 7:03 PM EST
I started off with a single char closed clan, and i was ALWAYS in the bonus range [10 to 12 pc], at all MPRs and all scores, [using up as much BA as is possible with 9-10 hrs off the comp, and buying all BA allocations]. So, that's the other side of the coin. On the other hand, I was ALWAYS using the "overpowered" RoBF siingle minion strat, so maybe the less glorified chars might be finding the going somewhat tuff ;)
January 2 2008 7:29 PM EST
Sorry to disagree with you Fex but you only have 3.5k GROSS score the past week with a -3.5k NET.
Not that much negatives IMO.
If you were in the top, lets say 50 clan producers you should get 12k gross points giving you a positive score of 7.5k, or about 1.2k a day.
That is not too bad.
January 2 2008 7:47 PM EST
Well, part of the problem as I see it is the 6/20 free-for-all.
Once a character claws its way out of the CP slaughter that is the range you talk about, then they can concentrate on taking down whatever clans have the most CP regardless of opponent scores.
The challenge bonus is there (possibly as a side effect) to encourage people to fight as high as possible, thus helping out the lowbies. That's part of why we see 500 MPR characters with 1.6M score. If you have 1.6M score though, why shouldn't someone with 1.5M MPR and only 1.6M score hit you for a bonus ? Up at that end, bonuses are harder to come by.
I don't see a solution. Do you see one to suggest ? The 6/20 people would be really hurting without the help they get and it really is an incentive to fight through that mid-level battleground.
Face it, if you're in a clan, people will target you.
Join a clan with people willing to help you and do your best. There were days when I was -1000 after buying all my CP and there was nothing to be done. Other days I'd hit the positives.
Concentrate on those who are targeting you that you can force to stop If you can get one player who is taing 500 CP away per day to stalemate, that's 500 more CP for you. If you can beat them, that's even more.
January 2 2008 8:11 PM EST
The "overpowered" RoBF strategy is not that overpowered after all in the all out clan brawl. I'm struggling to break even lately but that's only because I'm running some non clanners in my list. I also don't buy BA. It's fair in my opinion. Another thing to consider is the nubs hitting 900+ ba a day farming you. That hurts a lot for me.
if any clan person is in a clan and complaining about not getting enough CP... they first need to buy all BA then re think why they are not getting enough CP. When I was in a clan with Vlad I worried about buying all my BA and fighting all Clan people... Score Means NOTHING! The only way score will help you is if you fight someone with a higher score... Worry about fighting those that give CP and fighting all possible BA... you can stay positive... you just need to work at it.
January 2 2008 9:33 PM EST
Score means nothing? I like to have 70% CB instead of 25% CB. Fighting lower score comes right outta my own pocket. Not everybody can afford to buy every single BA after all. That being said, I can still stay 800 in the positive getting reasonable rewards without buying BA. It all depends on your objective I suppose.
January 2 2008 11:55 PM EST
Yukk is completely correct in one statement.
Due to the possibility of getting a negative challenge bonus, one constantly has to try to find clan opponents with a higher score then their MPR.
At about 1.8M this almost becomes impossible since the average PR then is well over 2.5M and you cannot beat those with scores over then that. That is a top 10 character.
So they they have to get negatives to their CB, slowing their growth since Koy gets 0 bonus.
I really was iffy if the current way is correct. The top get no negative challenge bonus, but those below do. At the lower levels, that is great as they can fight up. But there will be a point where you cannot gain even a 0 CB, you can only fight down.
This is the solution I propose.
You can attack ANYONE in the same BA refresh as you without a negative bonus, just 0 or positive.
If you beat someone with a lower number BA refresh then you, you get 2x the current negative challenge bonus. This is to prevent "picking" on weaker opponents. You can get a postive bonus if you find a really got opponent in that range.
If you beat someone with a higher number BA refresh then you likely are doing very well. Be Happy and have fun. But the bonuses are as now.
IE, someone in the 7 BA regeneration rate, if they fight someone also in that 7 rate, the lowest bonus is 0, but they can get a positive one.
If that 7 BA person fights someone in the 8, 9, or 10 regeneration rate, they get 2x the normal negative bonus, but can get a + bonus. IE if someone in that range has a great character, they can get a positive bonus.
If they can beat someone in the 6 per regen, then great and they should almost always get a postive bonus, but the program does it as it does now.
Hope this may be some solution to the problems in the 7 BA regeneration rate range.
January 2 2008 11:59 PM EST
I like Ranger's suggestion.
January 3 2008 2:02 AM EST
Me too, it gets the bootystamp of approval.
January 3 2008 3:19 AM EST
I cannot agree more with Ranger. Good idea!
Well that leaves everyone who isn't in BR two to three people they can fight without a loss to their rewards... and the only reason I mention BR is everyone in BR can beat everyone not in BR except the odd few, Novice and A'boy included.... so that again gives BR an advantage... good to see everyone thinking about themselves instead of all the possibilities. So anyone in the 6/20 range has 1/10th the opponents they have now if this change were to take effect.
That will only make it even harder to catch up to the top...
January 3 2008 9:58 AM EST
If you want to keep the current situation for those at 6BA regeneration that would be fine. My suggestion is for those at the other regeneration times.
My idea was not a "lets make BR stronger" one.
January 3 2008 10:10 AM EST
LOL I am up top, but I get farmed like hell too :P
I blame it in UC though... I could guessed the same for you hehe
there seems to be a downward spiral here...we have new clanners come up, fight for awhile in the heavily farmed area and then quit/drop out of clans entirely or say to hell with it and make an ncb. the heavily farmed area is created by the top not being able to fight up for obvious reasons and the exemption at the top.
i can only speak for myself, but i do not actively seek out new blood at the low levels, i really just use the in-game tools for finding new opponents. i hit the add clan memmbers close to my score and see if there are some on there that i may be able to beat as opposed to the ones i know i cannot. if there is new targets, they get added to my list. i am lazy however and do not then go flesh out my 50 available slots by looking even lower to see who i can add.
i would assume that others use the same method for choosing targets. with these assumptions only three things can really make this better. changing the system, convincing people that the more that stay in clans the better it will get for everyone and lastly just more people playing the game in general. at certain times i have thought that clan membership should be mandatory but i know that probably wouldn't go over real well.
Yes farming for clan points, getting attacked 500 times a day by the same 3 over and over, thats why I won't join one.
So if you can't seem to gather enough of them change strat or get an ncb don't stay on your mpr then.
January 3 2008 1:13 PM EST
I really never understood why people care about being farmed.
Any clan bonus is better then no clan bonus, especially for the growth of a character.
So what if your clan is autodisbanded? Join another.
We all should know score means very little, that is your score. Your rewards are not based on it.
January 3 2008 1:39 PM EST
I think the reason why people care is because they used to pull 2k clan points not early in their NSC with the same amount of fighting coupla weeks ago. Now they are barely breaking even. The change is hard to swallow. It's kinda like how your challenge bonus starts to slide big time past 800k mpr. The sudden slow of growth is.. well upsetting in a sense. It's a good way to wean one off their ncb/nub though.
January 3 2008 2:09 PM EST
"QBRanger, 1:13 PM EST [collapse]
I really never understood why people care about being farmed.
Any clan bonus is better then no clan bonus, especially for the growth of a character.
So what if your clan is autodisbanded? Join another."
Lol, Ranger, when was the last time you were farmed so much your clan went into negative points and was auto-disbanded? Speaking as somebody who has been farmed into the ground so often that I've been responsible for the disbanding of SIX separate clans (not counting my solo clans), it's very very disheartening, and partially responsible for me not being in a clan right now.
If your char is farmed so much it can mean NO bonus at all for your clan; which makes it pointless having the clan in the first place.
January 3 2008 2:40 PM EST
JW, I think the trick is to choose your clan and your clan members well. If the clan owner is even moderately active and careful, the clan should never get disbanded.
If you are in a good clan with moderately active members, it will almost never get disbanded.
I was previously in Bleach and HC chose clan members well. The clan never got disbanded since its creation and the lowest bonuses I got from Tuesday to Saturday was 6%. That is much better than nothing.
January 3 2008 2:49 PM EST
Lol, Tal, you were in one of my clans weren't you?
The problem with the clans I've been in has never been leadership, and mostly the clan members have been very active, more so than most.
The problem quite often has been that due to lack of active clan fighters at particular levels leads to me (and others) getting farmed into the ground by much bigger fighters.
January 3 2008 2:54 PM EST
"Lol, Tal, you were in one of my clans weren't you?"
Yup. And it never got disbanded while I was there and you owned it.
You see, it's all about choosing the right clan members. ;)
January 3 2008 3:00 PM EST
I'm being farmed by, I think, EVERYONE in the top 25. -2000 is average for me. At the same time, using all my BA, I about break even. Buying BA, I can get to +3000, assuming it's a good day.
But I like Ranger's suggestion. It needs a change. Outside of Giant Hunting, I haven't seen a positive challenge bonus in quite a long time :\
January 3 2008 3:11 PM EST
There were times early in CB2 where I was farmed quite a lot.
However, I burnt all my BA and managed to keep up a positive score.
It never fails to amaze me that people complain about this yet do not burn all their BA. They expect to have a positive clan score yet burn 1/2 or less of their available BA.
January 3 2008 3:14 PM EST
"I'm being farmed by, I think, EVERYONE in the top 25. -2000 is average for me. At the same time, using all my BA, I about break even. Buying BA, I can get to +3000, assuming it's a good day. "
Case in point.
Most people at/near the top buy all their BA each day. I understand if those lower cannot, but even using your normal allotment of BA, one should be able to tread water most days,. With a decent clan, get some positive bonus.
You could make it so that the 6/BA people are only exempt from negative challenge bonuses when there PR is below some threshold. Currently, if you have a weapon outside of your weapon allowance, your PR runs wild. If you're in the 6BA region, that doesn't matter at all.
See, the thing is this.. Once those people enter the 6BA refresh, who can they attack? They still can't fight up because of stupid PR levels, and if they fight down, they're equally screwed.
If the crazy PR levels were controlled to something sane, there would not be such an issue.
January 3 2008 3:17 PM EST
I don't buy BA, admittedly, but that's my choice, unless I use USD, to either buy BA or upgrade items.
However, I don't miss a given BA. It's simply that I'm a good target for a lot of people which generally does for me; it's only up at the level I'm at now, lower down there's no problem.
January 3 2008 3:23 PM EST
I always gained money after buying BA.... Though, if I hadn't bought at all, I would have gained MORE, but still.... You don't lose money buying BA unless you're not burning all your other BA, or use a NCB.
I am NOT supporting the current system. If I get hit by ONE more member of BR, I'm going to be annoyed (not really). But a 1.45 mil MPR character shouldn't be being farmed by people with LITERALLY double the MPR, much less more so...
January 3 2008 3:24 PM EST
Once people get to the 6 regeneration rate, they can attack anyone without a negative challenge bonus. Their fighting life becomes such much easier.
Then the people at 6/20 in your suggestion will still be fighting the 7/20 people, which is the cause of the problem.
January 3 2008 3:34 PM EST
That is one cause of the problem, certainly.
The other is that those in the higher reaches of the 7 regeneration has no choice (in most cases) but to fight those lower then they are, getting a negative bonus. Therefore not catching up to Koy as fast as they should.
The main reason I proposed what I did.
January 3 2008 3:45 PM EST
A couple of points...
1. Ranger's suggestion about negative rewards was made during a chat conversation in which I was noting that I might well have the highest 7/20 MPR going (by my math Lumpy should be at 6/20) and am consistently subject to negative challenge bonuses.
These negative bonuses add great difficulty to reaching 6/20...
From what I understand Ranger was addressing the 'high 7/20' growth stall with his suggestion, not clan standings.
2. Sox and I have a fairly successful clan even though we both make good farm targets with 2mil+ score. Not a top 5 clan but since we both have to miss BA occasionally I could care less. An extra 7% to 12% on my BA is just grand thank you. If you want a good clan bonus, buy BA (which also helps MPR growth which is what matters right?)
3. GW, not EVERYONE in the top 25 farms you. I, for example, don't. (I used to though!)
Anyway, I liked Ranger's suggestion although I think it might be better served by being in a separate thread.
"That is one cause of the problem, certainly."
It's also the original post, which my proposed solution attempts to address.
January 3 2008 4:17 PM EST
I like the combination of NS's and Ranger's suggestions.
Although I think determining a PR cap for 6/10 characters might be very tricky if at all possible.
It's not a cap... it's just a threshold.
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