Wiki : lacking the basics of fighting ? (in General)

Sickone January 7 2008 3:20 PM EST

First off, in case this is already covered somewhere in there where I could not find it, I would really appreciate it if you could point me in the right direction.

So, I can find info about the spell damages inflicted depending on spell level/XP, I can find detailed info about how AC damage reduction works, I can find listings of NWs of weapon/armor upgrade values, I can find detailed effects of armor and tats (how much of what stat they add/substract) and even the way all EO/ED spell work in conjunction with everything (order of application, effects, etc).

What I can NOT find is the simple explanation of how ST and DX work in conjunction with weapons.
Meaning, for instance, how much damage per hit, what chance to hit, and how many times does a minion hit another minion with a weapon ?
For instance (just an example), if I have a 5000 ST, 5000 DX minion with nothing but a [40x50]+20 melee weapon equipped, and I have reduced an enemy minion with nothing on (for example, a no-equipment AS enchanter) via EC to -5000 ST, -5000 DX, how do I calculate everything (average damage, number of hits, chances to hit for each blow) ?

Sickone January 7 2008 3:27 PM EST

Oh, and in case of ranged weapons, do the x and + values from the ammo and the weapon x and + : do they simply add up ? Or is the x value multiplied and the + value added ? Or do they translate into some "levels" like evasion and DB/AoI or the PTH from the TOA ?

Sickone January 7 2008 3:35 PM EST

*grumble* no edit buttons on forum *grumble*

Yes, there is some kind of explanation for the DX-based chance to hit on the "to-hit" wiki page, but the formula there is completely inadequate when negative DX values are involved (or if the formula is correct, it would mean a negative DX minion is harder to hit as a very small positive DX minion)... I suppose I should have mentioned that too earlier.

Wizard'sFirstRule January 7 2008 3:37 PM EST

I believe negative DX is treated as 0 or 1. (I think its 1, but not sure).

As far as the basic fighting formula, I don't think anyone other than Jon knows.

QBRanger January 7 2008 3:43 PM EST

In the wiki, under all created pages, there is a page labelled "to hit".

That has a lot of information.

BTW, bow and ammo + add up.

Sickone January 7 2008 3:51 PM EST

Thanks for the input, Ranger, but I was already aware of that page (just forgot to mention in first post).

The problem with that page's data is, whenever negative DX values are involved (especially for defender), it gets really weird.
I *suppose* it could be as simple as adjusting defender DX to 20 via simple addition (to both attacker and defender DX) if defender DX is under 20... but I have no idea how it is exactly, and it's quite important (especially in cases where higher level ECs are involved).

Also, the matter of attacker/defender ST values and min/avg/max damage dealt remains open completely, I am pretty sure that part is not covered anywhere in the wiki, not even as a raw/approximate formula.
And last but not least, the x on ammo... added or multiplied to weapon x ? It *is* pretty important if it's multiplied (overpowered), and nasty if added (underpowered), IMHO.

QBRanger January 7 2008 3:55 PM EST

Negative str/dex is counted as 1, not 0.

Damage output itself is quite unknown, the formula that is.

We do know/assume the following:

Strength has very little to do with damage reduction. I take about the same damage if my tank has 1M str vs 4M str. It only helps in melee rounds.

You need to have 4x str or 4x on your weapon to do 2x damage.

We were told by Jon that each extra x on the ammo gives 1% more damage and each + give additional 3% to hit. This is likely after the damage is first calculated then the ammo x is multiplied on.

I will try to find the changelog post about the ammo upgrades and post it shortly.

QBRanger January 7 2008 3:56 PM EST


Sickone January 7 2008 4:08 PM EST

Could then maybe somebody more "versed" in wiki-editing create a page explaining what is known and what is unknown about all of this ?
I mean, it does sound like wiki material to me ;)
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