Where are all the forgers? (in General)

QBRanger January 15 2008 3:54 PM EST

For over a week now I have needed a forger. Yet I cannot find one. What's up with that?

Marlfox [Cult of the Valaraukar] January 15 2008 4:14 PM EST

Depends on what item you want forged.

QBRanger January 15 2008 4:20 PM EST

First I wanted a TSA forged, now a SOD and after almost a week, I cannot find one forger available.

Makes me wonder why I would ever use a forger when I can just use the BS and get it done immediately, for a bit more.

Ulord[NK] January 15 2008 6:39 PM EST

There is not a lot of economic incentive to forge. Even if you pay 70%, a fairly high end forger can do 600k a day. That's only 55%*600k = 330k a day. With 100% CB, an ncb can make 400k a day in its prime. So you lose the chance to gain exp, level your tatt and get less income. Why would anyone forge?

TheHatchetman January 15 2008 7:20 PM EST

"There is not a lot of economic incentive to forge. Even if you pay 70%, a fairly high end forger can do 600k a day. That's only 55%*600k = 330k a day. With 100% CB, an ncb can make 400k a day in its prime. So you lose the chance to gain exp, level your tatt and get less income. Why would anyone forge?"

FINALLY!!! It is typed from fingers that are not my own... Forging at 70%, you can make a slight profit over that of fighting (barring money time)... When I was forging at 70%, i was able to make about 250-300k more a week than i would have by fighting... At 65% (which most people seem to think is the "fair going rate") I would have broken even...

The only way for forging to be truly profitable is when you have a team that requires lots of net worth to be effective, and you are still unable to reach a challenge bonus above 5% or so... This will break them even, but the team either doesn't have the necessary equipment and net worth (so you'd make less fighting). Or, if you do have the necessary equipment, you turn that tidy little profit in rentals...

Regardless, Fighting > forging in 90% of scenarios... People are beginning to realize this... Also, part-timers are drawn to not forge due to lack of reliability (seriously... who wants to hire the guy forging 400-750k nw /week?).

And to be honest, now that I've switched from forging to fighting, I believe I'm making MORE than I did forging at 70% (different team than the one i drew my first set of numbers from)...

If you're getting a challenge bonus, forging isn't worth it.
If you can't spend at least 60-80% of your spawned BA most days, forging isn't worth it.
If you have a tattoo that needs leveling, forging isn't worth it.
If you can afford a RoBF, forging isn't worth it.
If you have decent equipment to throw into rentals, are able to get most of your BA, have a steady line of jobs, and forge for 70%+... Forge on!
This is the main reason I didn't understand people dropping to 65% (especially NUBs who were still well capable of 100% CB

QBsutekh137 January 15 2008 7:29 PM EST

Oh, Hatch, sorry I was late... I coulda typed for you a long time ago. *smile*

Why do you think I stopped forging? It's a fools game, even at high MPRs.

TheHatchetman January 15 2008 7:55 PM EST

If you typed it a long time ago, then I wouldn't have noticed. I never payed much attention to forging for profit, as I was a fighter, blissfully ignorant to the plights of a forger.

Didn't mean to claim I was the only one to say it (though, I see I definitely worded it that way... Oops >.<), just meant that I've said it many many times, only to have it quickly glanced over and ignored... Much like Ulord's and my own posts above will be :P

Only way I see forging becoming a viable way of making more money than fighting is by raising efficiency... I see only two possible reasons for it being where it is at now:
1) Forging is broken
2) Forging isn't meant to be a business. It is meant for you to upgrade your own items cheaper than the BS will, at the expense of your BA...

QBRanger January 15 2008 8:00 PM EST

I agree, forging is not worth it, however, some like to do it.

But I have never forged since character growth is more satisfying.

AdminNightStrike January 15 2008 8:06 PM EST

I see no reason why people can't gain XP while forging. It's protected by bot checks, it consumes BA, and it represents the character actually *doing* something (vis a vis, to "gain" experience)

lostling January 15 2008 8:18 PM EST

make there be "forging experience" ;) then have a forging skill that lvls up... make forging more effective the more you forge :)

AdminQBnovice [Cult of the Valaraukar] January 15 2008 8:20 PM EST

forging is a simple trade
XP for cheap NW

Forging as a trade is flawed and only really sensible if you are saddled with a char that is unable to be fought. If it were possible to gain XP for forging the only trade off would be NW for clan points, not even close to enough of a loss for how much NW can be added forging your own items.

AdminNightStrike January 15 2008 8:37 PM EST

Well, you would obviously gain less XP for forging than for fighting....

Synge [Memento Mori] January 15 2008 9:39 PM EST

If we are going to tweak forging, instead of gaining xp, I would just prefer that forging be increased in effectiveness. I like the trade-off that has to be made between NW and xp, I just don't like the cost-benefit point where it is currently set.

QBOddBird January 15 2008 9:57 PM EST

The cost-benefit point, for the record, would be better if forgers would simply charge more. 80% is still 1/5 less than one would pay at the BS, and large amounts -can- be done per week. I know the Blacksmith is instantaneous, but giving up an item for a week to increase its NW by 3 million and keep 20% of the money that would be otherwise spent is pretty fair, especially considering there are usually replacements that may be obtained from others/rentals/forgers.

I would, however, like to see forging efficiency increased, if for no other reason than that I like to forge and I always like to see what I'm doing boosted.

QBsutekh137 January 15 2008 9:57 PM EST

Amen, brother Synge!

Make forging be a _real_ path, not some also-ran...

QBRanger January 15 2008 10:06 PM EST

Increasing forging efficiency could create a 2nd class of players. True forgers who forge for profits, decent ones.

Perhaps the next step in an evolution of CB. Right now, however, forging is pretty much left to a small percentage of the community.

Xenko January 15 2008 10:21 PM EST

As people have stated, not worth it.
Fighting: Increase MPR
Forging: -

Fighting: Increase Max Tattoo, and level tattoo
Forging: -

Fighting: Get cash
Forging: Get about the same amount of Cash

So the advantage is where? And with the forging rate at 65% or so, it becomes really hard to justify forging unless you just want a break from fighting. I like the idea of forging XP and increasing gains as you increase in forging level. Or at the very least doubling the cash to compensate for the lack of XP gain.

ScY January 15 2008 10:21 PM EST

This is my comeback post!

Anyway, I used to forge quite a bit. I didnt have the time to devote to a character in spending BA. So, a useful alternative to that was forging. I have also been an advocate for forgers rights (aka BUFF FORGING) for quite some time.

A game which is advertised to have multiple aspects; aka forging, fighting, tournies, etc which has only one of those pursuits being a viable way to spend your time in the game is, in truth, false advertising. If forging is so stupid, then why include it in the game? Why advertise something that once you join the game, everyone says its a worthless endeavor. Either buff forging or remove it from the game.

smallpau1 - Go Blues [Lower My Fees] January 15 2008 10:35 PM EST

Plus, I'm waiting for the NUBs to stop exploiting forging just because they can until their NUB expires... But yea, i dont think forgers make enough to compensate for 0 Exp gains. Tis why i brought up the idea of items being introduced to be similar to the opposite of Elven gear (which means Forge only items).

QBRanger January 15 2008 10:42 PM EST

Forge items.

I like it. Items that when equipped increase forging efficiency. Upgradeable items like armor.

QBOddBird January 15 2008 11:08 PM EST

I think he meant...items that can only be forged, as opposed to items that can only be BS'd.

[RX3]Cotillion January 15 2008 11:10 PM EST

Forge Only Items? That ... is ... wow... Freakin awesome. Too bad it'd take quite a long time to have the items introduced. If a weapon were forge only, it probably wouldn't be used too much due to the fact that it's forge only.

QBOddBird January 15 2008 11:21 PM EST

Then just make it a -good- item. Like the pre-nerf VB, or the NSCs. Forgers get high demand and a good rate on the item due to basic economic principles.

[RX3]Cotillion January 16 2008 12:05 AM EST

I still say there should be an Eco Clan overhaul... Do something to where there is competitiveness between clans. As of right now, the only thing separating eco clans is a name and the reduced xfers.

It shouldn't be TOO hard to implement... The clan with the highest amount of NW forged should get a bonus or something. That would make forging at least a little more interesting...

Lumpy Koala January 16 2008 12:22 AM EST

Then you wouldn't call it Econ clans anymore if it's SO tightly tied to forging. Might as well call it Dwarven Whipping Clans.

IMHO I still think people should stick to the carnage (look at the game's name again :P) and forging should only help YOUR OWN items when you want to get tons of N/W at the expense of XP. The whole forging for money concept is just pure evil.

AdminNightStrike January 16 2008 5:51 AM EST

Items that can only be forged is a remarkable idea....

Especially if the item is uber powerful compared to its BS'able counterpart.

Brakke Bres [Ow man] January 16 2008 6:53 AM EST

such an item will be a put down for ncb and nub users.
Why can't it be bs-ed? The dwarf is the uber forger he does 10mil upgrade in 10 minutes!

Thanatos January 16 2008 7:28 AM EST

I say give them their own tats.

If you charge to much and then I have to rent a weapon or armor while I wait, it just makes sense to have stuff bs's.

I beleive you charge to much, but your forging ability should be better. So you can take on more jobs to make money.

Maybe even limit how much NW can be added to an item, so you have to take multiple jobs to use all available ba.

Thanatos January 16 2008 7:42 AM EST

How about armor for forgers.

Increases forging ability and give a decent boost to defence.

But, also adds a huge pentalty to fighting, so you can't do both
but are able to defend yourself.

TheHatchetman January 19 2008 4:12 PM EST

"But, also adds a huge pentalty to fighting, so you can't do both
but are able to defend yourself. "

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