I3All to the Wall Strat (in General)

Armageddon January 30 2008 12:12 AM EST

I'm trying to make a strategy that I can stick with as long as possible (without Evasion+RoBF) to over 1mil MPR. It will consist of a Heavy Enchanter, Enchanter, Archer, Heavy Tank.

Enchanters will come after my Archer and Heavy Tank get some Exp. I don't know how long I should wait to hire new minions, so that information would be helpful :D

Archer Build: Archery/ Small Protection
-Elven Hauberk
-Helm of Clearsight
-Elven Gloves/Beleg's Gloves
-Elven Boots
-Elven Cloak
-Amulet of Invisability

Tank Build: Bloodlust/ Vampiric Aura (Maybe)
-Adamantite Curiass
-Helm of Echtelion
-Enforcer's Crossbow
-Blade of Thuringwethil/ Morgul-Hammer
-Tulka's Gauntlets
-Chain Mail Leggings
-Shadow Cloak
-Buckler of Mandos
Amulet of AC/Might

I don't know when I should hire more minions, but here are my two Enchanters.

Enchanter #1: Max Ethereal Chains

Enchanter #2: Max Ethereal Chains/ Max Antimagic Field
Tattoo of Endurance


Order of the final team will be:
Enchanter #1
Enchanter #2
Heavy Tank

All will be very helpful. Thank you for your time.

three4thsforsaken January 30 2008 12:29 AM EST

I might suggest a Mage shield over a BoM and EC over AMF since everyone loves evasion these days.

VA on a heavy tank is not a good idea, cost way too much. Even Bloodlust is pushing it.

Oh, and if you have AoI, sticking it in the way front might be a good idea as it'll be the last one to be hit by MM.

I like the enforcers crossbow ^^

go Beleg's not EGs

Mind the PR though, with all these equips, you might have a large boost to PR that'll be a thorn in your side.

In the long run it seems very solid IMO

TheHatchetman January 30 2008 1:29 AM EST

I might suggest putting the Archer in the back. With the EH, he should be able to survive melee rounds. Adding a MgS may also help to insure this (and you could throw protection on another minion). Belegs would be the advised gloves here, at the very least until they are fixed (they are currently granting 7% extra damage per + instead of 3%). This would allow your Archer to make an effective Mage wall, as well as damage dealer. The Archer should also us a VB as it's melee weapon, to help against other teams with heavy reduction.

For the heavy tank, I would advise full heavy gear. With it set up as you have there, you would only be able to get ~240-270 AC, depending on how much you're willing to pay. Lets say 260 for my example. with 260 AC, you will block 54.6% of physical damage (turning a 1m blow into a 454k blow.). With full "wall" gear, you could achieve ~350 AC for the same cost. with 350 AC, you can block 73.5% of physical damage (turning a 1m blow into a 265k blow.) So with full heavy gear, you would effectively blocking 41.63% of the damage you would be dealt with the lighter, more ST-focused, gear. This could make a HUGE difference when the ToE is involved, as that means they will have to hit 71.32% (the inverse of 41.63%) harder to beat the ToE's damage cap. This will result in most physical damage (aside from large, BG-backed ranged weapons, and (of course) the VB.) being practically useless, including the RoBF. This would leave you with many options for the enchanters. I wouldn't advise training VA on this minion. If you feel it could be useful, put it on an enchanter. I'm also partial to MH over VB, since you're getting such a huge DX penalty, why not go all out? :P

If you do not plan on having a massive + on your weaponry, EC will be a good choice for you, so as to help you hit. The heavy tank is massively hindered (in DX) by a 22% penalty, and the Archer will be having issues as well getting DX-based shots off at enemies using more focused tanks, or evasion.

Another option would be to do like I have, and swear off Evasion teams, and those using large DBs, by training AMF, and keeping a decent + on your weapons. This would allow you to focus on mages and tanks that don't use VB, Evasion, or large DB. Evasion mages will blow themselves to bits, while trying to crack at your damage reduction (quite unsuccessfully), leaving your tank and archer to clear away the rest of the team.

One final option to be considered with a setup like the one I described, would be to use one enchanter (if you did this, I would definitely advise AMf, as it's not likely you can get enough EC to be effective if you're training less than 40% of your team's MPR into it), and have another minion acting as a PL battery. Due to your reduction, you would not have to train much PL to absorb everything you need to, which would allow you to train massive amounts of HP into this minion, allowing for a great regen if you used TSA. This would help to ensure your tank and archer stay alive, and do a good job of keeping FB/COC spread and well under the ToE's damage cap, allowing less AMF to go further :P

If you go with any of these ideas, and use 2 enchanters, I would advise setting the team up EETA. This will allow your enchanters to act as meat shields against tanks before they get to the reel beef of your tank :P

If you use an enchanter and a PL battery. I would advise setting up as ETPA. This will allow tanks to overshoot the PL cap against your enchanter (you don't want your PL guy wasting HP to keep the E alive), then start dealing their pitiful damage to your tank. Against tanks, damage is reduced heavily by AC, then Protection (if it is not dispelled), then ToE, then it is reduced further and filtered away by PL, then partially (if not fully) regenerated. Against MM, damage is reduced by AMF (if you use it.), then MgS (if you use it.), then EH, then by any + on your armor (this part is negligible.), then Protection (if it is not dispelled), then ToE, then it is filtered reduced further and filtered away by PL, then partially (if not fully) regenerated. Against FB/CoC, damage is reduced by Spread, along with the same factors as the tank/MM...

Not sure if this helped any, but I'm working on a similar strat myself and have played with a few things. These are essentially my findings. The PL part is theoretical, but easily figured out. Best of luck to ya ^_^

TheHatchetman January 30 2008 2:03 AM EST

Also, as long as the minion won't have HP (i.e. your enchanter(s)), a base AMf with some NSC never hurts ^_^

Armageddon January 30 2008 12:40 PM EST

-DD spell users are taken down First with my Archer's Mageseeker

-Physical Damage Dealers are shot down with my Heavy Tank's Enforcer's Crossbow

-Ethereal Chains will allow my Archer to easily double hit mages, and allow my Heavy Tank to hit other Tanks.

-I did not plan on having any AMF to start with unless I was fighting a Triple or Quadruple Mage Team.

-Enchanters will just be Physical Meat Shields and DD Diluters after casting for my Tank. Two extra combat rounds will really help me Tank survive.

-I could do with my Archer in the 4th slot because he will easily take out any Mage after EC is cast. Then I have a Heavy Tank to absorb Melee blows.

-I could then drop my AoI on my Archer.

Anyone know when what MPR or when it is a good time to hire Lesser Minions?

QBOddBird January 30 2008 12:52 PM EST

If you ask me: Just before your NCB ends, so that you can get the most EXP possible in the first two minions with the bonus, and then build up a little in the 2 recently hired Enchanters so that they aren't worthless. :)

Armageddon January 30 2008 5:20 PM EST

My NCB Tester is just so that I can keep track of the items that I need :D

I plan to make a real NCB after my NUB is done.

iBananco [Blue Army] January 30 2008 5:34 PM EST

You'll be exceedingly vulnerable to single tanks, btw.

TheHatchetman January 30 2008 6:48 PM EST

and your NCB test char is soon to be retired...

TheHatchetman January 30 2008 8:40 PM EST

EC will be useless in combatting evasion without at *least*35% of your MPR into it. Also, without a decent AMF, evasion mages will pick you apart. Your AC on the heavy tank will not be nearly enough to keep ranged damage in check, and large enough melee weapons will break through without a truly massive ToE. RoBFs will also continue to be an issue as well.

This leaves you with:
non-evasion mages.
tanks on spread teams without DB, ToA, VB (or a large "big five" weapon), and/or evasion.
Teams that use a massive EC to entirely drain enemy ST, and have low DX because of it.
and familiar-based teams (except JKF).

Insane amounts of + on your Exbow and enough x to entirely drain enemy ST with one shot could open up more tank doors. And pushing hard for at least 300 AC on the heavy tank (which would also require rediculous nw with the setup described above) could help even more, even allowing you to slow RoBF damage (If ya can't beat 'em, stale 'em). But unless you can afford a 300-500m nw team, this one is sound in theory, but will not work nearly as well as expected in practice (I've made a few strategies that were sound in theory but disappointing in the end of things...).

Armageddon January 31 2008 11:31 PM EST

Maybe I'll just make an Single Archer.

QBOddBird January 31 2008 11:38 PM EST

Yeah, cookie-cutter strats always do well.

Me, I prefer to try things that shouldn't work so well. Like a 4 minion FB team training nothing but FB and equipping a RoS + base AS. :D
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