New bonus. An initial impression (in General)

QBJohnnywas March 5 2008 3:48 PM EST

Ok, my last char I started with the standard 160 ba, but from there on in I bought ba for the first month. After a week, with no ba missed, and bought ba used up during crazy xp time on those days, I had just hit 100k MPR.

I started this char 8 days ago, but I've bought no ba, and I've missed 2 of the 3 crazy xp times. I've yet to get a 100% challenge bonus and I'm not even going to bother setting up a singleton clan. And yet I'm sitting at 120k MPR.

So by doing far less I'm 20% bigger this time around so far.

I like it! Without buying ba I'm still not going to be as big as I would need to be if I was going for a challenge on the top, but I'm still going to end up with a much bigger character.

QBJohnnywas March 5 2008 3:53 PM EST

Of course there are others who only started yesterday and have 144k MPR already.

I also forgot to add that I'm not on as much as normal at the moment thanks to being stuck on jury duty this past week as well. I probably would have been bigger. But not as big as that 144k mpr in a day.....;)

Flamey March 5 2008 3:54 PM EST

I burnt 160 BA in exp time, then transferred that character to OB who spent 1600 of it in exp time. :)

AdminG Beee March 5 2008 3:57 PM EST

It's a heck of a lot closer to where it should be, but still not quite there if you want to get to 95% of top MPR. Then again, Jon said he'd need one last tweak to get it spot on.

95% of top MPR is ~3.4m and I think I'll come in just under 3m after having used a RoE for 2.5months and not missed much in the way of BA. I did miss out on maybe 8 or 9 days purchased BA however as the cost was too rich for me to afford at the end.

We're getting there...

QBJohnnywas March 5 2008 3:58 PM EST

Yeah, it'll take a view on how well some of my fellow new NCB starters do; but I think it's definitely a lot closer to what it should be.

QBRanger March 5 2008 4:12 PM EST


Beee, while you had the new super bonus did you buy BA? If you did, how close would you have been?

The 95% is for those that buy and use all their BA.

QBOddBird March 5 2008 4:32 PM EST

If I had been more careful about what I was doing, the character would be likely 200k MPR today. Instead, I rushed through my first 2000 BA and lost about 500 of those fights.

The new bonus is -definitely- an improvement, and hopefully on my second go around with it I'll be able to put myself in a nice upper echelon position with a decent tattoo (that I'm levelling on this NCB.)

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] March 5 2008 4:38 PM EST

i would be very interested in how much your tat gains over the course of your ncb ob. also, if i wasn't using a roe at xp times, i would love to contrast it with normal tat growth over the same period.

oh well.

AdminG Beee March 5 2008 4:59 PM EST

I believe my dropped days of BA purchase cost me about 125k MPR since the rescale Ranger. That would have cost me $24m to buy the BA though.

As for tat growth - it's been pretty neat watching it shoot through the most powerful ranks for the last two weeks. Growth has been close on 2m levels, or at least will be by the time I finish, since the rescale.

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] March 5 2008 5:22 PM EST

that is some very nice tat growth then. grats to ya!

Little Anthony March 5 2008 5:24 PM EST

very nice. Hope to see you soon on the high rank.

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] March 5 2008 6:53 PM EST

LoL! And my new character (made a month ago) is 80K MPR!

Doh! ;)

QBOddBird March 8 2008 6:11 PM EST

EXP: 1,543,665 gained during EXP time today....pretty incredible.


QBRanger March 8 2008 6:32 PM EST

Score / PR / MPR: 1,193,666 / 359,949 / 250,956

Incredible for just 5 days into the NCB.

QBsutekh137 March 8 2008 6:44 PM EST

Seems about right, actually...

He started on a Tuesday (high experience), and any 5-day recognition is therefore on a Saturday (another high experience). So, the recognition is really more for 7 days.

4 months, on average, is about 120 days. Divide that by 7 and you get 17.14.

Multiply 17.14 by 250K, and you get 4.3 million.

In 4 months, Koy will easily be at 4 million MPR, probably beyond (I don't know what Koy has untrained). Koy has shown 200K MPR growth per month fairly regularly, so getting to 4 million is actually very conservative.

And we're talking about the high challenge bonus period in the hands of an experienced player. Once he hits 1 million MPR, that is going to reduce.

Overall, it sounds to me like the bonus is dead on. From Hubbell's standpoint, I just hope he tries to use DEs a lot when he gets up to 3 million MPR or so. *smile*

QBRanger March 8 2008 6:49 PM EST

Actually Koy grows about 100k per month. It has been fairly stable for a while.
But your right that in 4 months Koy will be 4M MPR.

I do believe he will slow down his growth quite a bit when the BA cost becomes far too expensive to buy.

AdminG Beee March 8 2008 7:13 PM EST

It's going to take a wee while before we can tell. The evidence at the moment only allows us to speculate, and whilst that's fun, it's really rather pointless :)

The recalculated bonus according to Jon is likely to need one more tweak if you remember his comment from a couple of days ago. We're not going to know how well new NCB char's are doing until we see their purchased BA cost pan out over the period and I suggest also until they emerge from the "deadzone" around about 2m MPR.

Meanwhile - good job so far OB.

PS. 115k MPR increase was normal for Double Trouble in a 24hr period through whacky time with the 1,618% bonus received and no challenge bonus. OB should be able to work out numbers for himself with his own percentage :)

P.P.S. To throw petrol on the fire: Perhaps the tweaking Jon still has to do is "downwards" :)

Flamey March 8 2008 7:14 PM EST

"also until they emerge from the "deadzone" around about 2m MPR. "

I'm not out of the deadzone. In fact, I seem to be right in the middle of it.

Wizard'sFirstRule March 8 2008 8:04 PM EST

I think there would be a problem if you don't need to do everything to get to 95%. Those dedicated enough with RoE, crazy xp time, all BA bought and spent etc might be bigger than ranger at the end of it. Since this is intended to bring players up to 95% of top MPR, how about disable N*B bonus when you reach say 97% of top MPR and opens up forging bonus, so you still have something to do after reaching the top? (or just keep fighting at normal xp)

Wizard'sFirstRule March 8 2008 8:22 PM EST

P.S. double post:
I just realised I am on the top page for all 3 stats. I have played a NUB with some untraining, some missed BA (although rarely more than a day) and some crazy wake up at 2am to play my 160 BA, no RoE, and 2 firing. and I managed to get somewhere near the top 50, so I guess the current N*B percentage would be good.

QBOddBird March 8 2008 8:32 PM EST

"I do believe he will slow down his growth quite a bit when the BA cost becomes far too expensive to buy."

The only BA I have bought was the day I started and today - I only intend to buy during EXP times.

QBOddBird March 8 2008 8:37 PM EST

Additionally, I started with Flamey burning 180 BA then transferring the char to me, where I burnt 1600 BA - all in EXP time.

So really, character growth is quite a bit slower than it appears. However:

1) If I had thought it out a little better, I would have been far more efficient in burning my first 2k BA (I lost/drew 500 of those battles)

2) If I had bought all my BA each day, I would be much further ahead

3) If I were in a consistently high-ranking clan, such as BR or /FTW, I would be a bit further ahead as well.

Colonel Custard March 8 2008 9:59 PM EST

I'm about 6 hours away from this character being 2 weeks old.

PR / MPR: 767,807 / 643,928
All BA bought, using RoE, 100% challenge bonus since the second day, 14% clan bonus on average. Missed some refreshed BA due to sleep patterns.
Buying all BA, with RoE and clan bonus, I'm close to 50k MPR per day. I like it.

Wizard'sFirstRule March 9 2008 6:03 AM EDT

50k*120 days=6m!!!
I definitely won't want to see people with 6m MPR at the end of NCB.

QBJohnnywas March 9 2008 7:10 AM EDT

Lol, if people start to outdo the top MPR thanks to RoE and adding minions...just wait for the complaints to start about how it shouldn't be allowed...

Mark my words. There will be complaints if this bonus is too big.

Flamey March 9 2008 7:40 AM EDT

"Mark my words. There will be complaints if this bonus is too big."

Prices are going to be too insane for this to happen. I think that's the reason the bonus is so high, you don't need to hit all your BA at that rate to get to the top. It looks like BA costs will be something like 100 mil? maybe?

QBJohnnywas March 9 2008 8:02 AM EDT

Prices for BA will be insane - I've only just started mine and it's already more than 200k per day. But doesn't the NUB get free BA now?

Just wait for another reason to make posts burning the NUB....

Flamey March 9 2008 8:09 AM EDT

Oh, yeah, totally forgot about that. Kept thinking NCB/NUB were different things :)

Colonel Custard March 9 2008 8:56 AM EDT

Currently, it costs me about 743k to buy 192 BA each day. It takes me at least 2.5 days'-worth of BA to make that back currently, and I'm sure my BA cost will continue to go up without a proportional increase in monetary rewards. So, on the 15th day, I'm already spending about 1.1 mil (net loss) every 3 days on BA. Assuming I maintain this cost (which, as I mentioned, I won't), it will cost me almost 45 mil over the 120 days.

That is a prohibitive cost if I've ever seen one.

Flamey March 9 2008 9:03 AM EDT

it used to be 45 mil, would've gone up so much after the change.

Colonel Custard March 9 2008 9:16 AM EDT

Like I said, that's if I continue my current cost-to-profit ratio, which I won't.

Second of all, I'm only buying 2/3 of the amount of BA I previously could buy (pre-change, I would've had 288 purchaseable at this refresh rate). Though I do profit similarly from that amount of BA (not sure if it's equal or not, given the overall boost).

QBOddBird March 9 2008 10:54 AM EDT

"50k*120 days=6m!!!
I definitely won't want to see people with 6m MPR at the end of NCB."

50k/day won't continue forever, you know that the challenge bonus will drop and fast down to 0%.

Mikel March 9 2008 11:05 AM EDT

I don't know, GB shot up pretty fast there at the end.
estimated finish was originally at 2.2 mil MPR, and he got to 3 mil.

QBOddBird March 9 2008 11:09 AM EDT

"...was normal for Double Trouble in a 24hr period through whacky time with the 1,618% bonus received..."

1,618% bonus vs. 431% bonus, Mikel :P his adjusted NCB was quite different from the regular 4 month NCB...

Relic March 9 2008 11:11 AM EDT

I have now been on my NCB for 42 days now and am averaging almost 31K MPR/day. The biggest challenge bonus I am getting is around 30% at this point (that dropped almost clifflike at about 820K MPR from 100%). I am getting to the point where my 2.6+ mil tattoo will start gaining levels, so as soon as my challenge bonus runs dry, I will switch over and level my tattoo.

It is costing me almost 1 mil MPR every day to buy my BA. The cost is really quite ridiculous. I would highly suggest that the BA cost be somehow related to our MPR, and as our MPR grows the BA cost decreases. So, it would be super expensive to begin with because we are really maximizing the challenge bonus. Once the challenge bonus starts to dry up and eventually become negative, our BA cost would go down considerably because the gain from the BA is way less than at lower MPR.

Mikel March 9 2008 11:18 AM EDT

"1,618% bonus vs. 431% bonus, Mikel :P his adjusted NCB was quite different from the regular 4 month NCB..."

That is irrelevant, it is where Jon thinks the NCB should've ended.
Just like when he changed the BA refresh rate last time. i got hosed because the rewards went way down, but the % stayed the same.

QBOddBird March 9 2008 11:20 AM EDT

Right, but I'm looking at it this way:

G_Beee's adjusted NCB should have been capable of potentially going to 95% of Ranger's MPR, better if he used a RoE all/part of the time

The current NCB is supposed to be capable of going potentially to 95% of Ranger's MPR -in four months-, better if one uses a RoE all/part of the time

Mikel March 9 2008 11:27 AM EDT

"The current NCB is supposed to be capable of going potentially to 95% of Ranger's MPR -in four months-, better if one uses a RoE all/part of the time"

wow...... so the RoE isn't factored into that number is what you are telling me?
Then you'd be dumb not to use it, if you can't afford to buy all of the BA.

QBOddBird March 9 2008 11:29 AM EDT

If it -was- factored in, then wouldn't that make the RoE a necessary component of the N*B (the two bonuses are tied together)?

Now -that- would be lame. Besides, one trades in the growth of a tattoo for the extra MPR...that's the tradeoff. Yes, I know you can work around that. That's not the point, it's supposed to be *extra* MPR for the tradeoff of no tattoo growth.

Mikel March 9 2008 12:00 PM EDT

Maybe it would be lame, but that was the way it was before the last change.
I wore my roe for the first 3 months of my NCB and barely got to 75% of top MPR.

I guess I better save up some cb2 and start over, but of course I'll wait until Jon's done tweaking before making that decision, because I'm sure, as soon as I start one, he'll drop it down :P

QBJohnnywas March 9 2008 12:06 PM EDT

Without buying any BA, without saved BA at the start I'm still over 200k MPR in less than 12 days. I've only just started to get 100% challenge bonuses the past three days. A slow start but still far above what I did before when I was buying BA in the first month.

I'm not certain how close it is to what it should be, but it's far closer than before. Use a RoE and buy minions later and I think this would overtake the top spot.

Mikel March 9 2008 12:21 PM EDT

Well I might have to consider it with spring break coming up.

AdminG Beee March 9 2008 1:17 PM EDT

Mikel, I think you only got 75% because the NCB was well and truly broken. Now it's less broken pending one further recalculation by Jon.

As for wearing a RoE being necessary for getting to 95% - I'm with OB in so much as I don't think that's Jon's intention or how it works in reality.
Personally, I don't believe an N*B char should be able to wear a RoE at all however the implications and discussion about that probably belong on another thread :)

Lastly, if a user is supposed to be empowered through the NCB to achieve 95% of the top MPR I believe the BA cost needs to be revisited. Currently it's overly inhibitive and in effect excludes 99% of the CB population who are either unable to, or not inclined to spend the necessary USD to keep up.
Being able to achieve 95% of top MPR should be based on the strategy of your team, specificity of your fightlist and consistency of your BA usage and not the depth of your wallet.

deifeln March 9 2008 2:37 PM EDT

I'm all for free NCB BA with greatly reduced money gain as a NCB option.

AdminG Beee March 9 2008 2:42 PM EDT

Actually, that's not such a shabby idea :)

Zero rewards, but BA and % EXP bonus in line with the current plan (post the next "tweak") to get to 95%. Top that off with not allowing RoE's to be equipped and a NW item cap and we have a plan :)

Why wouldn't that work better than what we have today?

QBOddBird March 9 2008 3:32 PM EDT

I am OddBird, and I approve of this idea.

Not that this actually counts for anything, but I've been watching too many political ads lately.

AdminQBnovice [Cult of the Valaraukar] March 9 2008 3:34 PM EDT

Explain to me how it's remotely fair to reduce the BA cost...

QBOddBird March 9 2008 3:41 PM EDT

nov - and reduce cash rewards accordingly. You couldn't make money from a NCB during the time that you ran it, as you do now.

USD wouldn't be a requirement, and a sacrifice still would have to be made.

At first glance, at least, it sounds fair enough to me.

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] March 9 2008 3:45 PM EDT

remember, jon didn't like the rolling bonus because it would be too easy. i don't think he's gonna go for free ba for ncb's either for the same reason.

i actually like the rolling bonus idea better as it allows dedication to one character as opposed to disposable ones.

AdminQBnovice [Cult of the Valaraukar] March 9 2008 3:51 PM EDT

You can spend every penny you make during an NCB and not pay for 1/5 of the cost of the BA...

QBOddBird March 9 2008 3:52 PM EDT

I still like it better too, dudemus...I'd much rather raise Hejin than start Hejin II in dedication to him...but Hejin will forever remain in my heart <3
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