I vote for no more Re-Intro's (in General)


smallpau1 - Go Blues [Lower My Fees] March 10 2008 10:09 AM EDT

Before the Re-introduction of the HoC, a bunch of people sold off there HoC's knowing what was to come within the week (Don't know how). I sold mine off for 5.5 mil about 2 days before its re-introduction. I see in Dreky's FS thread he cant even sell it for 1.5 mil. This is just plain ridiculous. Re-introduction will ruin the price on every item that comes through supportership two times over. Plus, i would rather see new items for people to mess around with anyways. Sorry for the </rant> but i know I'm not the only one that feels this way. If one more re-introduction is a must, bring out the JKF with some buffs. It needs some love, after that, let's see that Razor Shield from 2 years ago that everyone voted for.

QBOddBird March 10 2008 10:10 AM EDT

I 100% agree

People shouldn't get reintroductions just because they're afraid of a literally 'rare' and valuable item versus the extremely common 'rares' that we have

Don't spoil the children Jon, withhold the candy

And I'm all for the Razor Shield from the poll forever ago

Xenko March 10 2008 10:11 AM EDT

"If one more re-introduction is a must, bring out the JKF with some buffs"

I agree with the buffs, I disagree with the reintroduction. Let's have some REAL rares in this game.

*holds up his DOWN with RE-INTRODUCTIONS protest sign*

Talion March 10 2008 10:31 AM EDT

I was against re-introductions at some point but now I don't really mind them anymore.

The RoE was re-introduced and the market price went down drastically for a while. However, it is now back up around $2M and will continue to rise.

This will also be the case with the HoC in less than 6 months from now.

Once my thumb would also have been pointing down, but now I just think re-introductions are not all that bad as long as they are market driven.

Daz March 10 2008 10:43 AM EDT

I am generally against them, but if an item receives a huge buff, then I'm all for it.

My example is the AoF; When it came out I didn't care at all for it. Then later down the track it's revealed that it boosts DD Familiar DD Spells with Junction and the item is a totally different story. So now I have to pay 8m for one instead of USD$6. In some ways I expect a reintroduction, but Jon seems to be trying to move the game away from single minions and more team based.

QBOddBird March 10 2008 10:45 AM EDT

Why, however, does that cause an expectation for a reintroduction? That's what I don't understand.

The very prospect of having to save up for an item is -that- intimidating?

I'm all for actually having rares in the game, instead of reintroducing items every time one gets a buff and 100% of the CB population can't afford to have 4 on their team.

Kong Ming March 10 2008 10:50 AM EDT

I would rather have a reintroduction in the form of the blackmarket.

ActionAction March 10 2008 10:50 AM EDT

I don't know about anyone else, but I -enjoyed- paying 8.5mil for my AoF :D. The rarity of an item - not just the AoF and such - is not something I would enjoy seeing altered :).

Brakke Bres [Ow man] March 10 2008 10:52 AM EDT

Ow yes those new item polls we had earlier!
New items! new items, booh for re-introducing!
I bought this AoF for 5mil and I can resell it, if I want, for 8mil at least! this item is now truly rare!

Daz March 10 2008 10:55 AM EDT

The point I'm making is that if the item wasn't 'bad' when it came out, I would have sent Jon the USD$6, while now, because of the buff it got, it's now actually worth owning and I'm effectively paying USD$44 to a player instead of Jon.

QBOddBird March 10 2008 11:02 AM EDT

Daz - that just doesn't make much sense to me...I guess we have opposing viewpoints.

That's like saying you could have dated a girl in highschool, but she was unattractive then....she's turned into a model now and you insist on dating her because you could have back then?

Or like stock you considered buying increasing in value exponentially...and you insist on the price being lowered to what it was so you can buy in?


Sometimes we just miss opportunities in life. I've not bought an AoL because I simply don't see a need for one right now. It might shoot up in value later due to a change, but you won't see me clamoring for a reintroduction.

Talion March 10 2008 11:06 AM EDT

"Sometimes we just miss opportunities in life. I've not bought an AoL because I simply don't see a need for one right now. It might shoot up in value later due to a change, but you won't see me clamoring for a reintroduction."

Maybe that's because you can still buy it... :P

Daz March 10 2008 11:08 AM EDT

Thats a perversion of what I was saying. A better analogy would be;
Toyota release a new model car. It's junk, so noone buys it and they end up pulling the product line entirely. Then, when noone can buy any more of them, Toyota make a new part, which they give to everyone who owns the car, making it the most fuel-efficient and powerful cars that exists.

Some people bought it just because they had $20,000 spare and later down the track get this impressive car. People who were car shopping but found a better car to buy didn't buy it, and now have no way to get this super efficient car without paying through the nose.

QBOddBird March 10 2008 11:11 AM EDT

Right....and that's just a missed opportunity.

And an even better analogy would be the same as yours, except it was an average car to begin with, and the super part was there all the time - just nobody realized it.

(after all, the AoF didn't get a buff, Jon just let us know that it worked on familiar DD. You can check out the changelog, it was already like this.)

Talion: I could still buy it right now, yes. I also sold my MgS that I bought when they came out, and for a much lower price....sometimes I wish I had it back. I am not clamoring for a reintroduction. Ditto that for AoI, NSC, AoF. I had an AOF when they came out, and I sold it for something like 1.5M later, and you don't see me complaining.

Daz March 10 2008 11:15 AM EDT

It's not really a missed opportunity if you look at the facts and then the facts are changed on you.

Also, I realise the AoF was always like that, but given that nobody knew, I think it's safe to use my analogy the way I did.

smallpau1 - Go Blues [Lower My Fees] March 10 2008 11:17 AM EDT

If a buff comes out on a supporter item, i would vote for 10 to go into auctions rather than a whole new re-introduction...

QBOddBird March 10 2008 11:19 AM EDT

*shrug* you're right, it's safe to keep the analogy the same.


Nonetheless, the opportunity was still there for everyone. Agree to disagree, I suppose. The notion just doesn't make sense to me.

Rubberduck[T] [Hell Blenders] March 10 2008 11:21 AM EDT

Daz if you want to limit the change in value of all supporter items then you will seriously limit Jon's scope for making changes to gameplay. As far as I can tell the changes made in changemonths are a popular feature of the game.

Daz March 10 2008 11:26 AM EDT

I don't want to limit it, I'm just saying that some buffs make a supporter item worth paying Jon for, rather than paying a player for.

smallpau1 - Go Blues [Lower My Fees] March 10 2008 11:30 AM EDT

Daz - Read my point 3 posts above yours. Clears that right up.

QBOddBird March 10 2008 11:30 AM EDT

...except if you're paying a player, the item is simply being shifted around within the game. No more are created.

If you are paying Jon, you are creating more of this item within the game.


And be perfectly honest, the motive isn't because you want to pay Jon instead of someone else...it's because you want to pay less for the item.

"The point I'm making is that if the item wasn't 'bad' when it came out, I would have sent Jon the USD$6, while now, because of the buff it got, it's now actually worth owning and I'm effectively paying USD$44 to a player instead of Jon."

QBOddBird March 10 2008 11:31 AM EDT

However, I'm willing to bet that if everyone's willing to pay Jon $44 for this supporter item each, he'll reintroduce. ;)

Daz March 10 2008 11:35 AM EDT

Well... I wont say thats not a part of it, but strange as it may seem, I actually like supporting the people who create stuff I like.

j'bob March 10 2008 11:38 AM EDT

It's funny how when it benefits one's argument, "this is just a game and shouldn't bet taken so seriously". But when it doesn't, "this is how it is in real life, why should you get your way now?"

This is not directed at anyone in particular because I'm just not motivated enough to look thru old posts to see who said what.
I wanted a TSA for a long time. I finally got my hands on one. Before I did AND now, I'm glad they didn't get re introduced because I do like having something that isn't splashed all over CB-dom.
I DO understand what Daz is saying though about wanting jon to profit and not anyone who had the extra cash to get an AoF even if they didn't want it or people who are just good at acquiring items.
Almost ties into yet another argument of USD in CB huh? Yes, I know, save your CB, you don't have to spend USD. But if someone else is willing to then you will have an even harder time getting what you want.
My train is heading off the track so thats all for now.

AdminG Beee March 10 2008 12:40 PM EDT

{cb1}smallpaul1 said:
...a bunch of people sold off there HoC's knowing what was to come within the week (Don't know how).

smallpau1 - that's just wrong.

I don't doubt some folks sold there's HoC's in the manner you state, but I do not believe their motivation to do so was based on the fact that they knew "what was to come within the week".

Relic March 10 2008 12:42 PM EDT

I sold one of my HoC's the day before the change for 5.5 mil, I had no idea the re-introduction was forthcoming. Where are you getting your facts?

QBRanger March 10 2008 2:03 PM EDT

As I remember Jon mentioned or hinted that the HoC was going to be re-introduced.

There was a lot of talk in chat about it and at least 5 people sold their HoC's very soon thereafter.

I personally think if Jon wants to give the new players all the benefits of the older players, he has to re-introduce old supporter items.

After all, is this not the purpose of the NUB? To let new players have the exact same chance at the top ranks as older players?

I would not like to see re-introductions, but as the game has been made, they may be essential to Jon's master plan.

Godpanda March 11 2008 12:00 AM EDT

YES, people sold off those HoCs with the perfect knowledge they were ripping people off. Jon clearly indicated the HoC was getting a re-release, they knew it, and they gouged the heck out of some players.

Don't paint over that. You can all it playing the game all you want, but they knew what they were doing when they sold those things for a ridiculous price a day before the reintroduction.


And I'd also like to say that for a NUB and a norrmal player without a bonus, saving up money is a HUGE difference. To a NUB, there is pretty much nothing they can't get in a week. For a normal player, 8 mil and you're looking at over a month of dedicated work. At least. Assuming you do nothing else with your cash. And, I'm sorry, but that's a depressing prospect for alot of players.


Honestly, I think you should deliberately leave the reintroductions in the game to discourage huge inflation of an item. Make it rare. But don't make it ridiculous. If there's always the threat of reintroduction, hopefully the prices won't keep rising like this.

10 mil for an AoF? Seriously?!

Ulord[NK] March 11 2008 12:14 AM EDT

I agree with GW's sentiment. The new players seem to be able to collect money at incredible rates. That tends to follow by reckless spending and needless inflation. Let's not even bring the spending habit of usd users into the discussion. Reintroduction should be used as deflationary tools to bring item prices down from the stratosphere. As far as AoF is concerned, I think 10mil is way overpriced. Consider the number of people in the game who actually junctions dd familiar, the demand is really limited. Not to mention the fact that there is serious risk of nerfage, not just with dd junction, but also with evasion. All I can say is buyers be aware at this point. As with the scenario of HoC reintroduction, the less informed and easily hyped players will pay the price.

MudBug The Redeemer March 13 2008 6:02 PM EDT

After the reintroduction of the HoC which I am still bitter about btw... I say let's not stop there.... Where's my TSA and AOF? Lemme get at least some of the 10 mil I spent back. I was one of the ones saying that would never happen. After the roe and hoc, let's keep on going.... Share the pain ;)

Tyriel [123456789] March 13 2008 6:28 PM EDT

If the game gets more and more players, re-introductions (or something similar) is completely necessary.

Unless you really want to have to pay $100m of your NON-BONUS, NON-USD money (which you may have spent the better part of a year getting) just to get one or two of the good old supporter items.

Until then: Stop paying so damn much, people! It's not helping you or anybody else (except item hoarders, of course)! If the price gets too high, you're only hurting yourself more if Jon re-introduces.

Godpanda March 13 2008 6:36 PM EDT

Brilliant and incredibly true:

"Until then: Stop paying so damn much, people! It's not helping you or anybody else (except item hoarders, of course)! If the price gets too high, you're only hurting yourself more if Jon re-introduces. "

The price ONLY raises because you're silly enough to pay 8 mil for an AoF and walk away HAPPY ABOUT IT!? Seriously!?

QBOddBird March 13 2008 7:49 PM EDT

You say "Seriously?!" too much.

By the power invested in me, I revoke this word from your vocabulary.

Godpanda March 13 2008 8:29 PM EDT

I'm incredulous a-lot! *incredulity* And you won't SERIOUSLY take seriously!? from me, will ya!? SERIOUSLY!?

If you take it from me, it shall arise more powerful than you could seriously imagine!

And I'll steal the word "dance" from your vocabulary!!!!!!!

lostling March 13 2008 8:38 PM EDT

1stly i know the people who sold of the HOC before reintro were aware of what jon said... i was there lol...
2ndly no i dont exactly like re introductions... but neither do i hate them... considering the fact that i dont think jon will reintroduce like 3 times?

QBOddBird March 13 2008 9:10 PM EDT

Hm. So if I understand this correctly: when an item reaches a price nobody will pay, instead of allowing it to come down naturally, we should beg to see it reintroduced.

Interesting.

Or am I incorrect and people will still pay it, but certain individuals don't want to and therefore they make a call for the reintroduction out of want for their own wallet?

Tyriel [123456789] March 13 2008 9:37 PM EDT

"Or am I incorrect and people will still pay it, but certain individuals don't want to and therefore they make a call for the reintroduction out of want for their own wallet?"

NUBs and perhaps people with USD will pay it. Normal people won't, because they won't have the money. This will especially be the cast if there is an influx of members from FB and other such future products.

NUB bonus is going up, CB$ prices are going down, and if you have neither, you're stuck going nowhere.

AdminNightStrike March 13 2008 9:42 PM EDT

What I'm hearing from this thread is.... "Go sell your AOF's now!"

DrAcO5676 [The Knighthood III] March 13 2008 10:14 PM EDT

There's an Aof for sale? Where.... let me buy them all and corner the market!!!

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] March 13 2008 10:18 PM EDT

methinks jon probably keeps an eye on auctions as well as fs threads and bases re-introductions off of the data. ie. when something is too rare for his tastes, he releases another round of it.

people likely complain for the same reasons, but just because the two happen simultaneously, i think it is a bit short-sighted to assume that the rerelease is due to whining and not empirical data.

woot, i just realized that today is my fifth anniversary on cb! during all of that time i can honestly say that i don't feel that jon has ever responded positively to a whinefest or a propaganda campaign in the forums. it may appear that way at times, but if you read his reasons, they are usually valid and based on data rather than public opinion.

QBRanger March 13 2008 10:20 PM EDT

Judging by past experience, the AoF will certainly get re-introduced.

Happened with the HoC and RoE when their prices became quite high.

However, Jon sometimes throws a curveball.

Personally I dislike re-intros. The old supporter items give the old-timers something "special" to have, aside from the T-shirt. If a re-intro is to be done, giving a hint is a poor thing to do. Just surprise us all and one day do it.

QBRanger March 13 2008 10:29 PM EDT

"i can honestly say that i don't feel that jon has ever responded positively to a whinefest or a propaganda campaign in the forums."

Agreed,

However, most people get on "whinefests" when there is something out of balance or they perceive out of balance. Most of the time, they do not want the thread to degenerate into chaos, but invariably personal attacks come into play and things go to hell.

Contrary to popular belief, people do not just create a whinefest for the sake of it. They have reasons and most of the time data to support their reasoning. In this case, 10M for a low NW AoF is not balanced for newer players. As 5M was not for a HoC and 3-4M for a RoE.

Quite a few times in the past, people have had to create said "whinefest" in order to point out to Jon the inbalances or even the bugs in the program. Sometimes only by playing the game can one see subtle things that are incorrect.

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] March 13 2008 10:42 PM EDT

i never meant the whinefests should stop, i too think they play a valid part, i just meant that we shouldn't assume they are jon's motivation for change.

i feel that the whinefests and the degeneration of the sometimes heated and usually emotional forums are a testament to the passion that many of us feel for the game that jon has created. as i have done many times before and since this is a special day for me, thanks again jon. i would not want your omnipotent powers and am envious of your ability to come at problems from totally new directions when the old ways fail to work.

QBRanger March 13 2008 10:44 PM EDT

Congrats Dude, on 5 years!

QBOddBird March 13 2008 10:46 PM EDT

I agree Ranger, whinefests aren't created just for the sake of it.

However, it isn't always because something is out of balance. It is often simply because one -thinks- it is, or has a personal complaint. For example: at what point do you draw the line that an item is becoming too expensive? At what point does one expect Jonathan would step in? If you check out AoF prices, they were very stable until one was sold at a high price, and then the community immediately assumed that was now the new stable price of the AoF.

Sometimes it isn't because of hard data, or because something is out of balance. If it was every time, we'd see a -lot- more changes.

lostling March 14 2008 1:02 AM EDT

please no reintroductions... doesnt make sense lol... even if everyone wanted one its totally possible to live without one

smallpau1 - Go Blues [Lower My Fees] March 14 2008 3:22 AM EDT

Very true, there's always a strat to use without the use of any supporter item. If you *need* one then you can save up to buy one like everyone else... Not our fault you *just* found the game and wasn't able to buy the supporter item that came out a year ago.

Godpanda March 14 2008 3:59 AM EDT

And it's not their fault either. Nice penalty though -_-

Flamey March 14 2008 11:42 AM EDT

Not our fault you *just* found the game and wasn't able to buy the supporter item that came out a year ago."

It's not their fault they have to pay 5 mil for something we paid crap all for.. It's like penalising young people for young..

QBRanger March 14 2008 12:31 PM EDT

Flamey,

however new players have excellent perks.

The NUB for one with its increased money. The ability to buy upgraded items for less then full price. The ability to see what strategies work, etc...

It is a trade off. Perhaps older players should have some perks, that is supporter items for 6 usd vs new players having to spend a bit/lot more.
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