Good luck with the NCB, USD spenders! (in General)


QBOddBird March 17 2008 2:40 PM EDT

I can currently buy 216 BA at $3,227 apiece. That's $697,032 a day, or 83.6M for the whole NCB (assuming price doesn't increase or decrease.)

Of course, however, it does. So the total cost is likely more.

Too rich for my blood...I'm thinking the last NCB I ran was the last I'll ever attempt to run and buy all BA on.

QBRanger March 17 2008 3:02 PM EDT

That's the price one pays for trying to condense 3+ years of a game into just 4 months.

Perhaps the N*B should be extended to 8 months.

QBOddBird March 17 2008 3:05 PM EDT

No kidding.

I like the NCB. No, I love it. I really do.

But due the the costs involved I'll never be able to use it for its designed purpose.

QBRanger March 17 2008 3:08 PM EDT

Only heavy, and I mean real heavy USD spenders can do a NCB right now and take it to the top.

One can still do a NCB and get to 2M MPR without buying any BA though. Not too shabby.

However, a NUB is the only way to make it to or near the top, IE: Little Anthony.

QBOddBird March 17 2008 3:09 PM EDT

Absolutely correct.

I could've sworn Jon was trying to find a way to reduce USD influence on the game.

This simply will increase it.

Mikel March 17 2008 3:42 PM EDT

Now now. You can't save up 1-2 mil per week? Use it as a cash cow to build up that cb2 so you can get there.

QBOddBird March 17 2008 3:56 PM EDT

1-2m a weeek is 80-40 weeks if the NCB doesn't increase in cost, which it does.

Cube March 17 2008 4:24 PM EDT

It will only get more expensive as mprs get higher as well, but I guess it's fair since it costs the same as those at the top have spent. However, it does defeat the purpose of the NCB. But I'd still be satisfied with a 2mil MPR character.

QBRanger March 17 2008 4:31 PM EDT

Well one can run a NCB to grow and make cash, getting 100% challenge bonuses. When the bonus goes down, unlearn/relearn to keep it at 100%.

That should be able to make a lot of money.

Doing that a couple times, saving up each time, may make enough money for a "run at the top".

AdminG Beee March 17 2008 4:48 PM EDT

As I understand it, you're supposed to be able to reach 95% of the top MPR by replicating a similar fight pattern as the top person over the period of your NCB.

Speaking as a player who's just finished an NCB I can see from my own experience that it's clearly broken.

Jon has stated that he's tweaking the bonus % and I hope that he'll get a chance to look at the cost too. If the cost isn't changed then it doesn't matter what's done to the bonus % because as long as you have to replicate the fight pattern of the top MPR player, you will never be able to afford to do so.

Relic March 17 2008 4:51 PM EDT

I am not even half way through my NCB and it is costing me almost 1 mil a day in purchasing BA. I have another 60 days. Hence all my CB2 purchasing... Hopefully Jonathan fixes it quickly before I waste too much cash. :P

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] March 17 2008 9:07 PM EDT

Back at it's inception I made the case that with no increased cash rewards, and an increased in BA costs a NCB was twice hit over the NUB (Increased cash rewards, normal BA costs) and worse off than a non bonus character.

Jon wanted the cost as a Tax for restarting.

QBRanger March 17 2008 9:18 PM EDT

Jon has specifically stated that the NCB purchasable BA cost will not go down.

He expressly stated that the cost will be proportional to the xp gained.

If we have a rolling bonus or extend the N*B that will be the only way I can see of lowering the BA cost while keeping up with cost related to xp gained.

colonel [penny pincher] March 17 2008 9:19 PM EDT

"Tax for restarting" you have got to be kidding me. I hope that is your terminology and not his because if that is a tax then a double chain mail is about the best bit of gear I have ever seen.

Seriously though, if it takes that many millions just to get the MPR and then how many (nearly countless to me) more millions does it take to equip that character as well?

Whatever, Happy St. Patrick's Day. I'm just going to sit with a glass of whiskey, thank God I'm not a Bear Stearns employee who is quickly losing everything, and fill out my NCAA bracket.

AdminQBnovice [Cult of the Valaraukar] March 17 2008 11:55 PM EDT

How many millions of dollars has PoisoN spent on BA?

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] March 18 2008 4:43 AM EDT

No, it's not my terminology.

An existing player should already have gained gear/CB2 from their first, or previous runs. And the NUB rewards bonus is desinged to give new players the same reward opportunities as those who started Jan 1st 2005.

It's your problem if you sell out/run contests and give your stuff away and don't have the items/cash you would have been expected to build up over time.

The increased NCB BA costs is a Tax for the ability to restart with the hope of reaching the top.

The only thing that this doesn't really cover is cash spent on the MPR of your old charcaters. Either through buying BA or purchasing minions. That investment/cash is effectively lost when you restart.

AdminG Beee March 18 2008 5:05 AM EDT

I fully agree that anyone taking advantage of the NCB bonus should be expected to prepare in advance. Preparation should include understanding specifically what your strategy over the coming months is likely to be, pending changemonths obviously and ensuring that you either have the equipment already in place or the means to procure it.
Preparation should also include putting in place a financial "nest egg" to purchase BA, and should also include consideration of how you will continue to generate cash to pay for BA as your character grows.
I have absolutely no problem with having to spend several months in this preparation. That doesn't mean specifically readying myself for an NCB, but it does mean playing CB in general and building a character that I can use as collateral.

The only concern I have today is that no matter how hard I prepare (unless I take a long long run at it) I can't really avoid the fact that I'm going to have to sink an awful lot of USD into purchasing BA.

Anyway, I'm done on the topic :)
I'm sure Jon has read most of the threads / posts on the topic and has a plan. Whether the plan addresses the cost of BA or not - time will tell.

AdminNightStrike March 18 2008 7:48 AM EDT

You have to understand that the NCB is not designed for people to run over and over and over again. In fact, Jon made a post about that somewhere back a while -- to the effect of: If you want to do an NCB, sell all your hoarded gear and take everything you've saved up over the course of 2 years or so and use that to fund "starting over". The idea is not to just run NCB after NCB.

That said, I do think that the length of the bonus should be in some non-linear proportion to the length of the game.

QBRanger March 18 2008 8:02 AM EDT

"How many millions of dollars has PoisoN spent on BA?"

How many millions of dollars has PoisoN gotten from his million plus fights?

Yes, we understand that people have spend a lot of CB2 buying BA over the last 3 years. However, they also have made tons of CB2 while fighting. Almost everyone without the NCB, fighting most of their BA can make money buying BA.

Imagine an older player, who took some time off for RL. He comes back and with the NCB cost, can never really make a run at the top unless he plays for at least a year before the attempt.

Or, if one has to sell all his/her stuff to raise the cash for a NCB attempt, what equipment should s/he equip his/her character with? Leathers? Or are they forced to play a mage since they cannot afford a decent weapons? Heaven forbid they do not use USD.

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] March 18 2008 8:05 AM EDT

"You have to understand that the NCB is not designed for people to run over and over and over again. In fact, Jon made a post about that somewhere back a while -- to the effect of: If you want to do an NCB, sell all your hoarded gear and take everything you've saved up over the course of 2 years or so and use that to fund "starting over". The idea is not to just run NCB after NCB."

The NCB *can't* work like that NS.

If you have to sell everything off to run one, where's the gear you'll need to run one competitively?

Cash spent on BA or purchasing minions is lost forever if you NCB. The only way to make that back is by buying more for USD.

Flamey March 18 2008 8:16 AM EDT

"I have absolutely no problem with having to spend several months in this preparation."

More than a year.

AdminNightStrike March 18 2008 8:28 AM EDT

"If you have to sell everything off to run one"

Well, rent it out, then, while your NCB is growing. That's what I did. I also had it forged for me while I grew :)

QBRanger March 18 2008 8:47 AM EDT

NS,

People do not have that much equipment to rent it out and make money. At least enough to pay for the cost of buying NCB BA.

That said.... I wonder what MPR one can get now that the amount of BA to purchase has gone down. Used to be 1/3rd your total BA (regenerated plus bought) was from bought BA, now it is 1/4th.

So let us use 3.7M for the top MPR. 95% is 3.515M. 75% of that is 2.64M.

So without buying BA, one can hope to get to 2.6M MPR. That is not too shabby. Now boost that a bit due to storing 1600 BA before you start, buy a bit of BA especially early on when the cost is reasonable and perhaps you can get to 2.8M MPR.

Flamey March 18 2008 8:55 AM EDT

or buy all BA in exp time. I heard you can save up enough for that? At least one exp time a week.

QBRanger March 18 2008 8:59 AM EDT

Agreed Flamey,

Buying BA twice a week during xp times will certainly help quite a lot.
Even buying BA during money times will give some xp and help fund buying BA on other days or just being able to upgrade some equipment.

Talion March 18 2008 9:05 AM EDT

"or buy all BA in exp time. I heard you can save up enough for that? At least one exp time a week."

Indeed. I can save up for both crazy XP times and my BA costs about $6,200 apiece.

Flamey March 18 2008 9:16 AM EDT

I knew this was the case before, Horseguy was doing it, I just wasn't sure if with the new changes this was possible. But I believe after it gets too expensive to do this would really give you a boost.

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] March 18 2008 9:16 AM EDT

"So without buying BA, one can hope to get to 2.6M MPR."

That's also including you fight naturally the same amount as the top spot, get the same challenge bonuses, win ratios, attacked in return as much and have the same clan bonuses. ;)

Otherwise, you'll be a bit lower.

Tyriel [123456789] March 18 2008 9:17 AM EDT

Hmm...

Buy gear that I can't afford already, or buy BA for the character that has no gear...

Tough decision.

What do you guys think? Should I buy an AoF, or BA for a couple days?

Flamey March 18 2008 9:17 AM EDT

isn't it 95% of where the top MPR will be at the time (predicted?) and not 95% of the top MPR at time of creation?

QBRanger March 18 2008 9:21 AM EDT

As we were told, 95% of the MPR at the time the N*B is over. IE, if you start a NCB now, it should be 95% of what Koy's MPR will be in 4 months.

GL:

Koy as not gotten a challenge bonus in years. Koy also almost never gets attacked so no free xp for me. Yes, I get a 14% or better clan bonus, but there are at least 4 other clans doing just as well. One would have to hope anyone making a run at the top will fight every battle they can.

QBRanger March 18 2008 9:28 AM EDT

And if you look at Talion's NCB, he has more battles won then challenged. Far better then Koy.

So it is not that hard to keep a high win percentage, adding in defensive wins of course.

QBOddBird March 18 2008 10:06 AM EDT

NS: I understand your point, you can't make NCB runs at the top forever.

But like GL said, cash spent on buying BA or minions is gone forever. Surely you remember that some time ago (maybe a year now), I saved up and prepared and ran a NCB strategy for the top. Bought all my BA, etc., and ended up at about 1.5M MPR after 3 months and stopped there, realizing it was just a huge waste of money to try and reach the top with the N*B at the time.

What of those people? People who tried to use the N*B formerly for its purpose and saved that kind of money, but then couldn't reach the top? That money is all gone, and even if I saved 2 million a week (quite a feat) it will be over a year before I can run a NCB for the top again.

What of the veteran who left CB back in, say, 2005 and comes back raring to go at the thought of the NCB bonus allowing him/her to potentially reach the top - and then finds out he must first run a NCB to get a decent character, then save and buy no gear, BA, or anything for at least a year and a half before he can have a chance at running for the top? And what if he goes on vacation during that run, or there's an emergency? Once again, all that money is gone, gone, gone. Another two years for you, pal! Probably more than that, since the bonus will have increased yet more!

QBRanger March 18 2008 10:36 AM EDT

According to the poll that Brent ran about the NCB costs, about 50% of the community agreed that the NCB BA cost should be lowered.

A landslide if I ever saw one in CB.

Rubberduck[T] [Hell Blenders] March 18 2008 10:40 AM EDT

Please save me from a CB where changes are implemented on the strength of 50% of the community thinking it a good idea ;)

QBRanger March 18 2008 10:42 AM EDT

I feel the opposite.

If 50% of the community can come to an agreement, then that should mean something.

What in the history of CB has 50% of the community agreed on? At least something that has been argued back and forth as much as this.

AdminQBnovice [Cult of the Valaraukar] March 18 2008 10:42 AM EDT

What RD does mob rule scare you?

"over 50% of CB'ers agree that gambling, staffs, and monkey knife fights are great additions to the game"

QBRanger March 18 2008 10:48 AM EDT

"over 50% of CB'ers agree that gambling, staffs, and monkey knife fights are great additions to the game"

I have yet to see 50% of CB agree that staffs, gambling or monkey knife fights are good for the game.

However, if someone wants to do a poll on it and prove me wrong, please do.

Now were getting into silly, stupid, even ridiculous extrapolations.

The NCB BA cost issue has been discussed quite a lot in the forums. The pros and cons both were presented. Brent was kind enough to make a poll and out of 4 choices, 50% agreed the NCB BA cost should be lowered.

Quite different from the examples put forth in the post above.

However, I would vote to have monkey knife fights in CB. My monkey would be quite a sight.

QBOddBird March 18 2008 10:49 AM EDT

Even QB's haven't gotten 50% of the community's vote. *grins*


And please, the sight of Ranger's monkey is something only a small few should be exposed to...

QBRanger March 18 2008 10:50 AM EDT

And I was incorrect, it was 43.8% of CB agreed the NCB BA cost should be lowered.

/me bows his head in shame at presenting a wrong stat.

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] March 18 2008 11:28 AM EDT

I voted for the Moneky Knife Fight!

Wait... This isn't a poll comment. :(

QBBarzooMonkey March 18 2008 11:31 AM EDT

Monkey knife fights, yeah!!!

In both hands!

Oh, sorry, I got carried away...

QBJohnnywas March 18 2008 11:33 AM EDT

bulletproof monkey

AdminG Beee March 18 2008 11:42 AM EDT

OK, I said I was done making comments on this thread a while back but I didn't expect Monkey Knife fights to come on the agenda.

I'm in !

Would we need a new minion slot or would a monkey be a familiar kinda thing ?

QBJohnnywas March 18 2008 11:46 AM EDT

They need a theme tune....

any of the older Brits will probably guess what I'm thinking about...

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] March 18 2008 2:53 PM EDT

Born from an egg on a mountain top?

AdminNightStrike March 19 2008 12:29 AM EDT

"What in the history of CB has 50% of the community agreed on?"

My timestamp petition :) :) :)


(which, btw, has seemingly reverted back to time stamps being gone....)

Lochnivar March 19 2008 12:33 AM EDT

Wait... does this mean we get helper monkeys?

Coolest

Thing

EVER

dibs on the name Mojo for my helper monkey...

AdminNightStrike March 19 2008 12:44 AM EDT

"NS,

People do not have that much equipment to rent it out and make money. At least enough to pay for the cost of buying NCB BA."

Ok, but a vet should have SOME sort of resources to make money in this game. Even just knowledge -- run an NCB, fight at 100% bonus, don't buy BA, power level a tattoo, 4 months later sell the char for a bundle, sell the tattoo for a bundle, pocket the cash, and see where you're at.

An NCB without USD is very difficult, yes. But you can still be a fairly competitive one without it.

Besides, as you and I both pointed out in other threads, it's impossible to have USD not touch your account in this game, simply by transition. (eg, if you bought something of DAWG's, then you've 'used' USD)

AdminNightStrike March 19 2008 12:47 AM EDT

How many days has CB2 been running?

lostling March 19 2008 12:52 AM EDT

lol... using USD for equipments i do understand... but making USD a actually requirement to buy BA is kinda harsh...

so how much money has to be spent on buying BA with 1 run of NCB now a days?

and how much can you be expected to earn per day... ignoring special times

DrAcO5676 [The Knighthood III] March 19 2008 1:18 AM EDT

NightStrike, 12:47 AM EDT
How many days has CB2 been running?

Currently 1,174 days

AdminQBVerifex [Serenity In Chaos] March 19 2008 2:30 AM EDT

So, wait, in order to use a NCB correctly you are required to buy full BA the whole time? jeez, no wonder I never made it to the upper eschelons of PR

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] March 19 2008 4:10 AM EDT

Fexy, if the Top spot is using 100% of playable BA, the Bonus is designed to get you to 95% of them, if you also use 100% of Playable BA. ;)
This thread is closed to new posts. However, you are welcome to reference it from a new thread; link this with the html <a href="/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=002NlM">Good luck with the NCB, USD spenders!</a>