NUB/NCB change (in General)

deifeln March 30 2008 11:00 PM EDT

Double the length of the NUB. Reduce rewards by 50%.

Keep length and exp rewards of NCB the same.

Discuss below.

deifeln March 30 2008 11:03 PM EDT

I like the first idea. Doubling the length of the NUB and reducing the rewards might serve to prevent abuse by those that are only interested in USD. It would also make the NUB more 'forgiving' if one didn't work very hard/have a good strat when the first start CB.

Relic March 30 2008 11:19 PM EDT

Suggested NUB Change:
1. Extra month added, ramp up exp and money rewards the first month, ramp down exp and money rewards the last month.
2. Allow two free re-trains at any point during the NUB.

Suggested NCB Change:
1. Lower BA cost.
2. Allow two free re-trains at any point during the NCB.

j'bob March 30 2008 11:34 PM EDT

Allow 7 free tattoo re-inkings during the nub (say with in the first 3 months?).
I think that with the importance of tattoos, that if a nub chooses to use one vs getting a RoE, free re inking would better allow a nub the ability to see what works for them best. Yes its a pittance to re ink a lesser, but if a nub wants to use a tat, it's in their best interest to get a regular tat ASAP for leveling purposes. I picked the number seven simply because it would allow a player to try all the tats and if necessary, get back to the one they started with (not including supporter tats of course).
Suggested NUB Change:

"1. Extra month added, ramp up exp and money rewards the first month, ramp down exp and money rewards the last month."
I think thats a good base (at least) of an idea because it will also prepare them for the drop off of bonuses when the nub ends.

"2. Allow two free re-trains at any point during the NUB."
Or just one. The cost of re training vs the exp to be gained during the nub can't be that drastic... plus we don't wanna just give them the world. :)

Please note, my suggestions don't take into account how difficult options like the above might be to implement into the game as I'm CLUELESS to the coding and what not that goes into a game like this. :p

Sickone March 31 2008 4:26 AM EDT

No bonus in first month, ramp up bonus during month two, keep 7 months of half the current bonus, then ramp down another month.
Total NUB duration, 9 months and a half (instead of 4), with almost identical overall results... actually, BETTER results, since there's a lot more "free BA" to go around, yet the income rate is much slower.

deifeln March 31 2008 10:34 AM EDT

There must be a NUB bonus in the first few months in order to retain the new players.

j'bob March 31 2008 10:38 AM EDT

I have to agree with there being some kind of bonus from the get go. Otherwise I don't think many would stick around.

Sickone March 31 2008 10:51 AM EDT

Right, because after the NUB runs out and the casual player that didn't fight 24/7 realizes he missed the train to the top big time, with little chance and a lot more effort on a second NCB try, soooo many stick around afterwards...

j'bob March 31 2008 11:07 AM EDT

holy smokes sick... you're right. its hopeless. lets just give up. take away the nub completely. it's broken. ALL IS LOST!!! I'm filing for a refund from jon. No one told me when i signed up that this would be so hard. what a world, WHAT A WORLD!
What are you gonna tell me next, that life's not fair, that there's no easter bunny, that not every kid that tries out for the high school basket ball team is gonna make it?????? Why oh WHYYYYYY.

three4thsforsaken March 31 2008 11:12 AM EDT

wait, there is no easter bunny?


Frost March 31 2008 11:50 AM EDT

i would have to agree with sickone jbob why would a New user need that bonus when they didnt even know it existed? after their first month they would be like "holy poop i got a super bonus". plus it would helpout with people making multis sellin out for usd and the sort. I think we should go towards making NuB less attractive to multi and abuse

Frost March 31 2008 11:54 AM EDT

oh and the tat free reink sounds like a bad idea it would be easy for abuse on that thing

j'bob March 31 2008 12:18 PM EDT

Frost, I actually agree with most of Sick's suggestion except the first month thing. Sorry if i don't see how not having a bonus during the first month is going to discourage multi or sell out behavior. And it's not a matter of a new user knowing weather or not there is or was or wasn't a bonus. Its (IMHO) about letting a new player actually see a good amount of growth and reward in order to draw them deeper into the game. I love this game but even with the nub I almost didn't come back to it (i stopped after a few weeks or something then started back up).
And I CAN see how my tattoo suggestion could be abused, I would just really like to see something similar to allow newer players to experiment more. Maybe free temporary re inking? No ability to change your tattoo permanently but the ability to change it a fixed number of times (again, 7?) for say, a week each?

Frost March 31 2008 12:19 PM EDT

that sounds better yea

Sickone March 31 2008 2:09 PM EDT

For starters, a NUB has no good reason to need a CB$ bonus from the get-go in the first place, wouldn't you agree ?
They already get all these free BA (which NCBs don't get), which translate into extra cash anyway, and there's no good reason why a NUB should be able to afford "top gear" in as little as a week.
I mean, come on, I barely started my NCB a little over a week ago, and even without any cash bonuses and without free BA purchased, I'm still raking in (roughly) at least 250-300k a day with just a portion of the base BA used... a similarly set-up NUB (with his "extra/free" BA) and the 400++% cash bonus would be looking at over 2 mil a day, if not more.
So... tell me... when you're gaining 2+ mil CB$ a day in a matter of weeks, is there something that can "teach" you the value of cash in this game ?

The XP bonus, again, another problem.
I was growing in my early fights of my NCB so fast, that I basically had to find completely new targets to fight twice, even three times during a "160 BA burn", because the challenge bonuses dropped like a rock from +50% to -10% before I even realized what's going on.

A slow start, a "regular speed" start, that's not that bad at all.
It gives you time to test out things, re-trains are cheap, you can fight competitively with armor and weapons straight out of the shops, you can play around and see what fits you best.
After a while, when you crossed the 100k MPR line (which should be well before one month of "normal speed" if you play it right), things start to get interesting, and a slowly ramping up bonus would be nice to have right about now.

Also, no offense, but if the "top players" have been going at it for years to "maintain" their position, what does a 4-month slingshot maneouver to the top (or near the top anyway) has to say about that ? But, again, ONLY if you do it from try #1, since, hey, NCBs are nasty as heck compared to a NUB.
Would it be so much to ask to have a slightly longer ascension to the top, like, maybe 8 or even 12 months ?
If patience is to be rewarded, what happends after those 4 months have passed ? Is patience suddendly so much more important ?

Last but not least, the way the bonus abruptly ends... one day, you're fighting all your free daily BA (which are more than what you get "accumulated" at max, so if you're slightly idle you actually get more than a double growth rate compared to not having free BA), the next day you're getting 5 times less XP and cash, and suddendly the extra BA you can purchase are expensive as heck (as opposed to completely free).
For a "once a day" logger, you just cut the growth rate (XP and cash) down to less than 1/10 of the growth rate in the previous day ! This person might as well just quit, since he's not all that high up in rankings, and you basically murdered all his oomph.

No, a period of no special bonuses is best to let people get accustomed to the game and all its knacks, then a slowly ramping up bonus to build up a sense of increasingly fast progression, then keep them hooked on a much longer bonus (but lower than the one we have now) so that they can take full advantage of all the free BA even if they only login once or twice a day... then slowly RAMP DOWN the bonuses, to soften the feeling of "rock-bottom drop", preferably over an "as long as possible" timespan to avoid shock.

Of course, that's how I'd do it, but what do I know, I'm not the ruler of this Universe here, am I... just a rather insignificant nagging voice :p

Little Anthony March 31 2008 2:35 PM EDT

I don't have to read all what sickone has to say but if it is about money I would like to state a few things since my nub is over:
Firstly, I use Blacksmith only (no forging) and bought high NW items (a few at discounted price). Given I have not used tattoo, I ended up with just say 50mil NW of armors. Some of these are rare old supporter items in which I have to pay extreme inflated price.
Ideally with tattoo I would say after my nub I should have about 100mil NW (including tattoo). Of course, this is a mage case, but I think I would be right given Soxjr (old Nub) who has roughly same NW I mentioned (and he has 1 minion)
let's say i have that much from my Nub, now, buying minions cost me roughly 90 millions ( that's about 450$). To get where I am, that possibly comparable with the tog players, the gears I have can cover 1 minion). God knows how much more i would have to buy to cover other minions. Argue that I should just stay 1 minion and ignore the minion cost is disregarding the fact that Jon wants to boost multi-minion team. Players like dudemus is going to be suffered for a long time and possibly forever (sorry Dudemus)
Conclusion, with given NUB money, and going mage, it is already not enough. Cut more? What you will have is a naked NUB and non-usd tank NUB is a scrap (sorry again Soxjr).
If I have 100mil NW with tattoo and a good strategy it can be enough; but definitely not great. I just don't see how boosting mpr for NUB (with the current system), NW can be ignored and reduced un-proportionally. Sure, there are few who are abusing NUB money, but should I, expired NUB, be suffered with a 1 minion, 3 pieces of armor, and tattoo? What I am going to do with that? Who am I going to compete with a huge mpr and nothing to wear to support? I think the NUB money is fine where it is if not lacking. And purchase minion for NUB should be free (sound right but unlikely to happen).

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] March 31 2008 2:49 PM EDT

i am suffered much around here...oh, and i suffer a bit as a single minion as well! : )

Sickone April 1 2008 12:19 AM EDT

"I don't have to read all what sickone has to say"

Well, it would have helped if you would have had read it all, then you would have seen I am not for reducing the overall CB$ intake, quite the contrary (you would get even more CB$, since you would be in the "free BA purchase" situation for longer).

The only thing I was saying is that you don't have to have any of the bonuses (neither the cash nor the XP) from the start of your NUB, but instead spend a while at "normal speed", then slowly "grow into" the bonus (which should be lower as it is now, but should last longer), then, when the bonus period is about to end, slowly lose the bonus, not cut it off completely and suddendly.
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