is this right? (in General)


Unappreciated Misnomer April 1 2008 10:46 PM EDT

A Pair of Displacement Boots [0] (+113) $1 $20,821,394 $1 Dec 17 2007

i ask why? auction

Admin{CB1}Slayer333 April 1 2008 10:49 PM EDT

cheaper way to transfer, is all I can think of.

Oh, and I wish I had bought them.

[RX3]Cotillion April 1 2008 10:52 PM EDT

Maybe they were doing some testing?

Maybe Freed sent Draco some cash and it was hell of a lot cheaper to xfer via auctions. Just like this.

Were they ever in the same clan?

QBsutekh137 April 1 2008 10:59 PM EDT

Um, isn't using the auctions to get around transfer fees patently non-legal?

lostling April 1 2008 11:04 PM EDT

well theres always a chance of them losing the item due to lag or something so i suppose it SHOULD be legal lol

DrAcO5676 [The Knighthood III] April 1 2008 11:10 PM EDT

Well those DB were part of a insta deal that we had done... and the cost of xfers was pretty outrageous... when I had just blown somewhere around 13 mil for the insta... and I also did it with a tat a while back as well... tats are mighty expensive in transfer fees... there are still fees for the auction so CB always gets its piece.

QBsutekh137 April 1 2008 11:16 PM EDT

OK...with all due respect, I'd like an "OK" from an admin -- I thought this sort of thing was very much not allowed.

If it IS allowed, then my thought about a transfer-free CB could never come to pass -- folks would just use this to basically transfer directly to another, paying with USD on the side... No wonder people think I am full of it. :\ I had no idea this sort of thing went on...

AdminJonathan April 1 2008 11:25 PM EDT

> I thought this sort of thing was very much not allowed.

Me, too. :)

I'm less sure that we have a standard fine; it's been a long time since someone actually thought that would be "clever." 2x the actual transfer fee would seem reasonable to me.

smallpau1 - Go Blues [Lower My Fees] April 1 2008 11:28 PM EDT

that was also back in December?

DrAcO5676 [The Knighthood III] April 1 2008 11:29 PM EDT

Can someone come up with the fine print where it says its not proper to transfer via auctions?

DrAcO5676 [The Knighthood III] April 1 2008 11:58 PM EDT

If it is illegal please make sure it is placed somewhere so everyone (Including the Admins) Can read it.... Here Here and Here

This does not include any that where wiped already from the system or any that I would have to search to deeply for.

miteke [Superheros] April 2 2008 7:06 AM EDT

I've also noticed folks getting around transfer fees with outrageously low rentals. This is used for forging deals I expect.

But I think it should be legal, though I have never done it. You are gambling after all and I dislike making more things illegal than you have to - because that means you have to police and punish.

AdminJonathan April 2 2008 7:29 AM EDT

> I've also noticed folks getting around transfer fees with outrageously low rentals. This is used for forging deals I expect.

Using loans and rentals for this purpose is fine.

AdminJonathan April 2 2008 7:33 AM EDT

> Can someone come up with the fine print where it says its not proper to transfer via auctions?

You're expected to have some basic reasoning skills, such as asking yourself, "if Jonathan wanted the $1 auction fee to be the transfer fee, why wouldn't he just make that the transfer fee?"

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] April 2 2008 8:29 AM EDT

i propose that we change the term "common sense" to "uncommon sense" as that would be a more apt description.

QBsutekh137 April 2 2008 9:51 AM EDT

Sure, mit, it is a gamble -- but do we really want "auction camping" to become a new thing? Then we'll start having people who use bots on auction camping, then Jonathan will stop auction camping, then Sefton will be mad...etc. etc.... I really wouldn't be able to handle that. *smile*

It is actually not as much of a gamble as you think... I mean, people could even be on the phone (especially if related to USD transactions) and grab stuff instantly. Not really much risk of someone else getting it unless, as I mention above, "auction camping" became a new phenomenon *shudder*

Cube April 2 2008 9:52 AM EDT

Isn't it still possible for someone to simply make the BIN price the actual price they are selling for to still dodge transfer fees? Would that be illegal?

QBsutekh137 April 2 2008 9:59 AM EDT

No, that would be fine, I think... We are talking about an insta in this case, and/or people doing PayPal deals on the side. In that case, the buyer would not be wanting to pay full price for an item, because he/she would have already paid elsewhere.

Cube April 2 2008 10:05 AM EDT

But then how do you define the rule, and still catch people. What if they do half the price or 3/4th through auctions? And the rest is an insta/ paypal?

QBsutekh137 April 2 2008 10:27 AM EDT

I see your point... What if Central Bank jumped in and sniped it? I thought that was what it was for anyway? My head hurts, I can't think on just one cup of coffee...

/me starts sipping his second...

j'bob April 2 2008 10:36 AM EDT

"What if Central Bank jumped in and sniped it?"
What we're looking at are BIN auctions no? Mr Chair doesn't do BIN's does he? And I don't think he should. There have been instances where someone legitimately put a high ticket item into auctions with a low BIN just as a sort of prize.

Whatever the case, I would think it would be fair to make this a RULE, written and noted and what not, to be enforced from here on and not retro actively.

I understand what Jon is saying about (this alleged) common sense (which is harder to find than you think) and it IS, after all, his game, but sometimes when you play a game that goes a bit beyond reality, common sense might tend to slip to the rear most burner... no?

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] April 2 2008 10:45 AM EDT

the rule probably needs to be stated on the auction creation page or the confirmation page or both.

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] April 2 2008 10:46 AM EDT

Common sense versus creative use of game mechanics.

Maybe if this isn't to be allowed, we shouldn't be able to actually do it...

;)

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] April 2 2008 10:48 AM EDT

that would be the ideal solution, but i see no way of implementing other than making auction fees the same as transfer fees or vice versa.

Tezmac April 2 2008 10:58 AM EDT

Be careful what you wish for. Jon has a nice round-about way of fixing problems, such as no posting in WTB/FS threads.

8DEOTWP April 2 2008 11:01 AM EDT

no BINs for less than a certain percentage of NW

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] April 2 2008 11:07 AM EDT

a corn for example sells for a vastly different ratio to nw as say a high level tattoo though. so there would be no one magic number for all items.

Tezmac April 2 2008 11:15 AM EDT

If we keep yammering over this, Jon's going to do something we're not going to like. Just post the rule, leave policing to the community, and make the fine 2x normal transfer fees.

AdminNightStrike April 2 2008 11:25 AM EDT

" Just post the rule"

Rules are never posted, Texmac, you know that...

" leave policing to the community"

How? The admins are doing it, too! We're just supposed to know that admins are allowed to do $1 auctions, and we aren't???

tasuki [UFC] April 2 2008 11:30 AM EDT

put a 30 minute delay on a bin.

QBsutekh137 April 2 2008 12:12 PM EDT

That's a good idea, tas. I would even up that to 4 hours... I can't see any reason why having to wait for a buy-it-now would be a big deal. If in the interim the auction price exceeds the BIN, that's good for the seller, and is making sure the market is having enough time to keep things "honest".

BluBBen April 2 2008 12:14 PM EDT

A delay on the BIN is a really good idea!

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] April 2 2008 12:17 PM EDT

i was thinking about that as well, or just disabling bin's for the first 4 to 6 hours of the auction and if in that time the auction price went over the bin then the bin is disabled for the duration.

QBsutekh137 April 2 2008 12:41 PM EDT

Yah, I guess a disabling of the BIN upon a higher bid being made would have to be in order for a delay to work. *smile*

Wasp [Demon Forging] April 2 2008 12:44 PM EDT

Having to wait 4 hours for a quick BIN is a big deal. I use BIN options to sell gear off slightly cheaper and get instant cash. Having this long a delay is silly. However, a 20 minute delay would be better. Make it so that if you bid over the BIN, the auction carries on running till end.

AdminJonathan April 2 2008 12:53 PM EDT

> Rules are never posted, Texmac, you know that...

Oh, please.

Show me a game that doesn't have a "if it feels like an exploit, check with an admin before doing it" policy, and I will concede you have a point. Otherwise grow up.

CB is a game for grown ups, not babies who sue because "do not stick this pen in your eye" isn't on every bic in the 10-pack. Whiners who need a rule for everything suck the fun out of a community quickly. (There's already more of that on CB than I'd like, unfortunately.)

QBsutekh137 April 2 2008 12:55 PM EDT

What do you need instant cash for? More instant than 4 hours? If you can wait 20 minutes, can you wait an hour?

The BIN wait has to be long enough so that no one would even think about using it as a workaround for transfer costs. I think people could find 20 minute windows of inactivity in auctions to risk it, and there would be no recourse if something like this were put in place (I am assuming that if this were put in place, then no one could subsequently be caught and fined for working around the transfer fees).

DrAcO5676 [The Knighthood III] April 2 2008 12:56 PM EDT

Then make sure the admins know as well... cause one of those Auction transfers was with G_Beee...

Also there are still fees to pay for starting the auction and for transferring the cash...

QBBast [Hidden Agenda] April 2 2008 12:58 PM EDT


Errrrr, Wasp, why would anyone bid over the BIN? "I could buy this for $1, but instead I think I'll bid $1.50!" ?

Bidding on an item that has a BIN should cancel the BIN possibility. Then the auction has to proceed for the allotted time.

miteke [Superheros] April 2 2008 1:00 PM EDT

I don't like that idea. People will pay more for an item because they can get it right away. That's why retail stores stay in business, you know. Keep the BIN the way it is. Instant gratification!

QBsutekh137 April 2 2008 1:02 PM EDT

Because of the wait period, Bast. If there is a wait period, then I could very well bid on an item with a BIN. But if the bid is LESS than the BIN, then after the waiting period is up, someone could still buy the item based on BIN.

And if an admin was involved in low BIN auction-transfers, then I would definitely want to see them face the same fines!

AdminNightStrike April 2 2008 1:11 PM EDT

"Show me a game that doesn't have a "if it feels like an exploit, check with an admin before doing it" policy, and I will concede you have a point. Otherwise grow up. "


The admins do it, Jon. Do you not realize that? The admins do the $1 instant auctions, too.

Heck, Draco even linked to a $1 auction that he did with G. He did that before he did it with Freed. How is that not "checking with an admin?" How are we supposed to know that it's ok to do it with an admin one day, but completely unallowed to do it with someone else the next?

That's just playing dirty.

AdminNightStrike April 2 2008 1:13 PM EDT

Addendum - For the record, I HAVE checked with admins in the past, and it's been ok.

Tezmac April 2 2008 1:15 PM EDT

Ok, we alllllllllllll know it's illegal now (if it wasnt obvious before). It's soon going to be made into a big enough deal that Jon just removes the BIN feature...

AdminNightStrike April 2 2008 1:17 PM EDT

Tezmac, that doesn't mean that it's legitimate to fine Draco. He did something that the admins said was ok. If we can't trust the admins, then what?

QBsutekh137 April 2 2008 1:37 PM EDT

I gotta go with NS on this aspect of it -- posted or not, consistency is paramount, especially if someone directly asked an admin and were told it was OK.

While it is true that folks who need rules for every little thing can suck the life out of a situation, it is also true that in scenarios where such rules are "call 'em like I see 'em", there usually exist mechanisms for approvals and validations. While my work place may not have an exact rule on how much vacation notice is too little, if I ask my manager and get approved for vacation, then that's a done deal.

I agree with NS in that CB has a bit of a problem there. It has no set rules for everything because that would be impossible. But apparently it also lacks a rigorous approval/audit system for when people DO ask permission. Because of that, I can't say I could understand a fine for Draco in this case, either.

QBsutekh137 April 2 2008 1:39 PM EDT

I think I like calling Tezmac "Texmac", too. *smile* I am imagining chili-mac with chipotle sauce to "tex" it up. Or maybe just very large portions to truly make it Texas-worthy. *smile*

tasuki [UFC] April 2 2008 1:49 PM EDT

If I recall, wasn't there a delay on bidding with auctions in CB1. Think it was like 10 mins.

Tezmac April 2 2008 3:35 PM EDT

Like a Bigmac except chili-fied? :O)

AdminJonathan April 2 2008 3:54 PM EDT

> He did something that the admins said was ok. If we can't trust the admins, then what?

If the admins approved it, then I stand corrected.

But I will add a delay period. :)

Wasp [Demon Forging] April 2 2008 4:19 PM EDT

Here's the scenario:

You get online in the morning for 20 minutes before work... you check the auctions and someone has placed some nice EB in with a nice BIN price that you want. You click BIN. Oh look you have to wait an hour before you can place a bid. You have to leave for work. You get back home and it's been sold. It's an inconvenience.

It's never been this much of a problem that something needs changing right? Why not just add a post: It has come to light that blah blah isn't allowed and if caught doing this the penalty is death. End of.

Godpanda April 2 2008 4:23 PM EDT

Hehe. Got to love Jon some times, lol.

Thread closed! =D

drudge April 2 2008 4:31 PM EDT

> Hehe. Got to love Jon some times, lol.

sorry, gw, i like girls

BluBBen April 2 2008 4:40 PM EDT

Who have said GW doesn't like girls?

DrAcO5676 [The Knighthood III] April 2 2008 4:42 PM EDT

It is a proven fact that GW loves Drama Llamas...

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] April 2 2008 4:46 PM EDT

i guess the buy it now, the first one submitted, could go into effect after the delay, unless normal bidding has already bid the item higher?

Godpanda April 2 2008 6:25 PM EDT

Oddly, DrA, from what I've seen....


I've started and been apart of the LEAST amount of drama lately. Indeed, if I was Jon, I'd refer to CB as my llama farm ^.^

QBOddBird April 10 2008 5:47 PM EDT

You must be kidding, GW. Didn't you just recently have a dramatic emo-thread regarding your feelings towards every person you know on CB? *grin*
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