Question about UC-Evasion/"Total Evasion" (in General)
"UC confers a degree of Evasion, equal to 1/3 its trained level." -- My memory, which usually does pretty well for itself.
My post-battle stats show my unencumbered Total Evasion as 131. I have a trained UC level of 111, and about a 176 effective level including all item bonuses. I do not have a Gi equipped, so my Evasion would not be boosted by that.
Is 131 supposed to be what I have? If so, what else affects it? If not, what should it be at?
1. Does DX advantage factor into the "Total Evasion" number?
2. Do item bonuses from elven gears/AoF count toward the "trained level", whereas the Gi and HG linear boost do not, or do no item bonuses count?
3. Is it supposed to be (111)/3 = (37) Evasion, or is it supposed to be 2.1mil raw UC level/3= 700k Evasion = (100) Evasion
4. If the battle ends in ranged vs. ending in melee, does the "Total Evasion" stat include ranged multipliers for whichever round the battle ended in?
April 10 2008 1:06 AM EDT
I hope you got your answer, I am very interested in getting a UC minion myself
April 10 2008 3:52 AM EDT
Unarmed Combat: 141 / 77
That's the UC on Sonny, the UC minion on my team Miami Vice. He's equipped with a Combat Gi and gets a total of 130 Evasion.
I don't think I can answer your main question... because in ranged, it should be 77 + 38,5 + whatever I get from Elven stuff. When I unequip my EBs or AoF, both my total lvl of UC and my total Evasion goes down. That means elven gears/AoF count toward the trained level, as stated in question # 2.
If this isn't the case, I don't know how my total Evasion gets to 130.
UC confers a degree of Evasion, equal to 1/3 its trained level.
Wrong, only when you equip the combat Gi.
And its 50% of its lvl these days, the wiki needs to be changed
April 10 2008 5:16 AM EDT
Henk, he's not wrong
According to Jonathan:
> Now that UC gives 33%+50% = 83% of level in evasion
No, it's 33% * 1.5 = 50%
April 10 2008 5:24 AM EDT
This is the change log:
Combat gi now gives 50% bonus to UC evasion (not a buggy 15).
UC now gets twice as much encumbrance credit.
Prechange, the consensus is that the UC skill itself grants 1/3 its level in evasion. This percentage is adjusted to 2/3 in ranged rounds. GI adds linearly to existing UC converted evasion. ie. 2/3 in melee and 100% in ranged with GI equipped.
Postchange, the only buff explicitly stated is the linear bonus from GI. My understanding would be that with GI, we now have 83.3% of UC converted evasion in melee and 116.6% of UC converted evasion in ranged. Seeing as UC converted evasion gets its own ranged bonus, I suspect the ordinary ranged bonus does not apply (could be wrong, maybe an additional bonus).
Also, I just read about this in wiki yesterday but only trained UC level gets converted to evasion. That is, the buffs resulted form AoF, EB, HG, EC, etc does not count toward converted evasion.
What I know is purely speculation though, I don't own a UC minion. Maybe one of you guys can test this out systemically.
April 10 2008 5:29 AM EDT
It's not 83.3%
It's a +50% from 33%. 150% of 33% becomes 50%.
Why would the ordinary ranged bonus not apply? I never heard this anywhere.
April 10 2008 5:34 AM EDT
Read the wiki version of UC before the first post change month change. I modelled my explanations on the old UC description, assuming that was well researched and all Jon did was increase GI's bonus. From what I understand, GI is a FLAT increase in percentage conversion of UC to evasion of 50% from 33%, regardless of innate UC converted evasion.
So the mechanics should stay the same. That is 33% + 50% = 83% in melee and 66%+50%=116% in ranged. You see there is already a built in bonus for UC in ranged, hence why I'm unsure whether the ranged bonus is applied on top of that.
April 10 2008 5:38 AM EDT
Read the quote directly from Jonathan himself...
"No, it's 33% * 1.5 = 50%"
April 10 2008 5:40 AM EDT
April 10 2008 5:44 AM EDT
In total? That implies UC is worst than before it was changed? (well in theory, when not bugged). Easiest way to test out the exact mechanics is to play around with a monk... Run some tests and examine the evasion data with and without.
April 10 2008 6:16 AM EDT
Ulord[NK], 5:24 AM EDT
"Also, I just read about this in wiki yesterday but only trained UC level gets converted to evasion. That is, the buffs resulted from AoF, EB, HG, EC, etc does not count toward converted evasion."
That's not true. I already tried it on my UC minion, as I posted earlier. When I unequip my EBs, EC, HGs or AoF, the level of Evasion changes. Normally I have 130, without my EBs it ends up at 122. 121 without my AoF, 128 without my EC. And if I take my Combat Gi off, it lowers to 105.
So item bonuses -do- count towards converted evasion. Or am I missing something here?
April 10 2008 6:21 AM EDT
Wiki says the evasion level is calculated pre item bonus, and links to an ancient change log back in 2005. Could have been changed.
The idea that items don't contribute to evasion was an assumption that I think Jon himself has refuted... no time to find the thread right now.
April 10 2008 11:25 AM EDT
IndependenZ are you sure about the HGs changing the evasion level?
Could you tell us if your evasion changes if the battle ends in ranged or not?
April 10 2008 11:32 AM EDT
Yes, I am sure. HGs change the Evasion outcome (at least in display). With it, I now have an Evasion of 131, without it it drops to 115.
There is no difference in the Evasion displayed whether I win the battle in ranged or not. Pretty confusing, I know... :S
April 10 2008 11:48 AM EDT
You can check for ranged multiplier. Find someone with weapon + close to your base evasion level with a significant dex advantage. Fight him a few times, you should see mostly double hits on you if ranged bonus does not exist. If you are seeing mostly single hits or even outright misses, evasion bonus does apply. This should be especially obvious in round one of ranged.
Based on my overall experience with this character, I get hit in ranged a lot less than I do in melee. I've always thought that the ranged multipliers to Evasion applied to UC-Evasion as well. I never really had a reason to doubt that. What is this that you are mentioning about UC getting ranged multipliers? Regardless, even if that were the case, that would multiply the Evasion proportionally, as it is a direct relation to the UC level.
I also checked with various equipment, and my HGs change my Total Evasion by about 20 points when I equip/unequip them, leaving everything else the same. My Gi seems to make a difference in the mid-30s, despite only granting 10 points to UC (HGs grant 26), due to the 50% boost.
Just cuz I responded to my own thread doesn't mean I've figured out all my questions :P
I meant to contribute to the apparent discussion I had started, rather than to stop it.
April 13 2008 10:44 AM EDT
Oh dear, that is confusing.
I would be inclined to agree with Ulord in terms of how the Gi is functioning. It gives 50%, added linearly to the existing UC-granted Evasion. The UC-granted Evasion itself is equal to 1/3 of it's level, not effect, and 2/3 with a Gi equipped (3/3 in Ranged). Those two are added second, after percentage bonuses are added from Elven gears, AoF, etc.
I expect that you're getting hit less in ranged because the ratio of UC used to calculate Ranged Evasion (3/3) is more than in melee, Col.
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